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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone tuned the b235 to the max,I mean all bolt-on and built block? It seems that everyone gives up after stage 3(with stock turbo). This is a popular thing to do in the Evo community and I think I might give it a whirl.
 

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Perhaps I didn't fully understand.... the stock turbo isn't good for anything more than maybe stage 3/4. It doesn't have the capabilities of going beyond that. And there really isn't a point in building the block with the stock turbo, because it just doesn't flow enough to require that kind of work.
 

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tommyjr said:
Has anyone tuned the b235 to the max, I mean all bolt-on and built block?
What does that mean please? :confused:
 

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I think he means with standard internals (and presumeably turbo)... basically a stage 3/4 kit.


The turbo runs out of puff after that hence the need to swap to a bigger one
 

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AdrianB said:
I think he means with standard internals (and presumeably turbo)... basically a stage 3/4 kit.


The turbo runs out of puff after that hence the need to swap to a bigger one
Ah ok, so we are talking about 280-300 bhp with about 420-440Nm torque (manual)
 

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Hi,

The highest stable (not just 3 sec dyno run) power I've seen from a 9-5 Aero is 312 hp/460 Nm.

That was a MY05 Aero w/ the MY06 "King cobra" intake pipe, Bosch green injectors, FMIC and T5 camshafts. Custom s/w on Shell 99 octane V-Power.

Really sweet running car. Incredible spool-up and pulls strong all the way to redline. 100-200 km/h in just over 13 seconds.

Best regards,

KK
 
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tommyjr said:
Has anyone tuned the b235 to the max,I mean all bolt-on and built block? It seems that everyone gives up after stage 3(with stock turbo). This is a popular thing to do in the Evo community and I think I might give it a whirl.
Tom,
You may also want to start a thread on power levels with an automatic tranny as is yours...
Thanks for the props btw on the other thread.
To add to one of the other points made here about not needing to have a built engine on stock turbo (maxed boost)- from what I have read on this board the stock crank, c/rods and maybe pistons are good. Having your fuel, spark and sufficient air (in and air out) are important on stock pistons.
Down pipe and freer flowing exhaust will be a must running max boost on stock turbo. Candidly you should upgrade the turbo 1step and run 20lbs to it

G
 

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tommyjr said:
Has anyone tuned the b235 to the max,I mean all bolt-on and built block? It seems that everyone gives up after stage 3(with stock turbo). This is a popular thing to do in the Evo community and I think I might give it a whirl.
From what little I know of the EVO, it runs a much larger turbo than we do. the TD04-15T-5cm2 turbo is pretty much maxxed at stage 2 and anything beyond is pushing the turbo out of it's efficiency range. Stage 3 is where most people stop cause that's where most of the components give up. The injectors, the fuel pump, the turbo, the pistons, all must be changed to move passed 300 hp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I realize that the Evo turbo is larger but it is supposedly only good for 320hp, give or take a few, but there are quite a few guys that run high 10s with it. Thats considerably more than 320hp, more like 400+ whp. Where do you get the 300hp # from? Personnal experience or from what you heard?

KK, Could you give some more info one the car you spoke about? That car had pretty limited mods compared to what I'm proposing, Thanks Tom

Oh yeah, we all know that the stock pistons might not be good for stock power levels... but let not rehash that conversation:lol:
 

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tommyjr said:
That car had pretty limited mods compared to what I'm proposing, Thanks Tom
Bearing in mind you are keeping the turbo and block as standard (I think thats what you meant in the first post) - what are you proposing?

tommyjr said:
Where do you get the 300hp # from? Personnal experience or from what you heard?:lol:
We get it from the capacity of the TD-04 turbo charger :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Bearing in mind you are keeping the turbo and block as standard (I think thats what you meant in the first post) - what are you proposing?
I said stock turbo, everything else is eligible to be modded including the block.

We get it from the capacity of the TD-04 turbo charger :confused:
Just like the "capacity" of the 16g(evo turbo).
 

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tommyjr said:
Just like the "capacity" of the 16g(evo turbo).
No idea ............... care to explain? :confused:

Why would you rebuild a block and leave the little turbo on there?

I'm facinated by this as you seem to know things that the major Saab tuners dont, please tell us how we can get great power without changing our turbos, you could save us all a fortune..............
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You obviously missed the point, instead of trying to belittle someone to make yourself feel better
I'm facinated by this as you seem to know things that the major Saab tuners dont, please tell us how we can get great power without changing our turbos, you could save us all a fortune..............
you could ask questions to help everyone reading understand as well.

http://ttp-engineering.com/
Half way down the page in the center, maybe this will explain. I am not saying and have not ever said that I will make huge power with the stock turbo, just something to experiment with.
 

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Chris 9-5 said:
No idea ............... care to explain? :confused:

Why would you rebuild a block and leave the little turbo on there?

I'm facinated by this as you seem to know things that the major Saab tuners dont, please tell us how we can get great power without changing our turbos, you could save us all a fortune..............
He is saying that somehow certain people have used their stock EVO turbo for about 400whp instead of the theoretical 320hp maximum. This is just stupid IMO. The turbo is WAY out of its efficiency range, it is SUPERHEATING the charge air at this point, and the shafts are probably hitting overspeed (rotating too fast). You could probably hit 30+ PSI with the stock 9-5 turbo and get a ton of power, but your intake temps would be unbelievable, and EGTs at meltdown levels. You'd blow your turbo within a matter of days probably. And you'd need to build your block simply to keep everything from exploding.....and even then you'd probably break it.
 

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tommyjr said:
You obviously missed the point, instead of trying to belittle someone to make yourself feel better
Actually Thomas, I am trying to understand WTF you are on about.

tommyjr said:
you could ask questions to help everyone reading understand as well.
I actually posted three questions......

Chris 9-5 said:
  1. No idea ............... care to explain? :confused: This question asks for more information regarding the turbo you mention as I have no knowledge of it.
  2. Why would you rebuild a block and leave the little turbo on there? This question asks for more information regarding the engine re build you now mention as you have not said what your plans are and again asks what this rebuild would do to enhance the capabilities / limitations / characteristics of the stock turbo.
  3. I'm facinated by this as you seem to know things that the major Saab tuners dont,( This is an expression of my interest in your plans - thats all! )
  4. please tell us how we can get great power without changing our turbos, you could save us all a fortune..............This question asks for more information regarding the work you mention as contempory thinking from the major tuners suggests differently - now they might just be after our money so your ideas, which could save us buying bigger turbos, are most welcome
 

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tommyjr said:
I realize that the Evo turbo is larger but it is supposedly only good for 320hp, give or take a few, but there are quite a few guys that run high 10s with it. Thats considerably more than 320hp, more like 400+ whp. Where do you get the 300hp # from? Personnal experience or from what you heard?

KK, Could you give some more info one the car you spoke about? That car had pretty limited mods compared to what I'm proposing, Thanks Tom

Oh yeah, we all know that the stock pistons might not be good for stock power levels... but let not rehash that conversation:lol:
Hi,

Most of the info is in Swedish I'm afraid...

http://www.garaget.org/?car=51740
http://www.maptun.com/cars.php?id=239

Let me know what info you want and I'll try to find it for you. Well, I know most of it by heart since I'm the "chef" responsible for the hardware recipe...:cheesy:

Best regards,

KK
 

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tommyjr said:
I realize that the Evo turbo is larger but it is supposedly only good for 320hp, give or take a few, but there are quite a few guys that run high 10s with it. Thats considerably more than 320hp, more like 400+ whp. Where do you get the 300hp # from? Personnal experience or from what you heard?
No, I don't think you quite understand how much bigger the EVO turbo is. You're probably thinking that a 15T compressor and a 16G compressor are about the same. Well they aren't...not even close. The T, G, even B stand for the style of compressor design and the numbers for the different styles don't correlate in size. A 16G is actually roughly about the same as a 19T compressor, which is much bigger. Now lets move to the hot side, you can only get in what you can get out after all. The 95 aero turbo has a 5 cm2 exhaust housing, the evo, well I can't remember exactly, but it's about 9 or 10 cm2 I think. So not only in the compressor larger, but the evo has a much bigger turbine to drive that compressor.

I'm sorry dude, but it just can't be done. 300 hp about it for a stock turbo, we know this from experimentation. Trust me, if there was a way to get 350 or 400 hp from the stock turbo, one of the tuners would do it...probably BSR, but it just isn't happening.

Now if you mod the turbo, you can make around what you're looking for. Some one took a TD04-15T-6CM2 (a 9000 aero turbo) and shoehorned a 19T wheel in it and clipped the turbine to get better flow and with some forged pistons, intercooler, fuel mods and a good tune from Maptun they got 350 whp.

So if we had a turbo like an evo to start it could be done......but we don't :cry:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
No, I don't think you quite understand how much bigger the EVO turbo is
I do understand the size difference, I never expected anywhere near the same output, I was only using the Evo as a comparison since they regularly boast about stock turbo hp outputs.
 

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I also think you might not focusing on teh "right things" here. Hp is good torque is what moves your car. With ths stock turbo built how Raven has said you can get a torque moster. If the area under the Tq and horsepower curves is large, that means your car is moving. I know I raced an Evo at Pocono Raceway last year and I blew by him before his turbo spooled, and he stayed the same distance from me after that.

Now I can't run "10's" of course since I have FWD, but on a road course a modded Saab can definlitely hang ( or from a roll)
 

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tommyjr said:
I do understand the size difference, I never expected anywhere near the same output, I was only using the Evo as a comparison since they regularly boast about stock turbo hp outputs.
Ok, then we told you the answer already. 300 bhp, give or take 10% Without any mods to the turbo that's as far as you can go cause the small turbine will choke the engine.
 
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