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Ugh...

I finally received the new ignition switch:

However, going over the replacement guides, I noticed that there is an additional black component attached, which I would guess is the actual electrical part that I needed:
View attachment 285007
Is this the bit that's actually tied to the faults?
Sorry to see you got hooked by that. Saab calls the first one the "ignition switch". The second one, that part you need, is called "contact". Odd, but true.

I highly recommend you download the WIS & EPC: WIS and EPC for Windows - SaabCentral Forums

The EPC (Electronic Parts Catalog) will help you with part numbers and diagrams in a relatively easy to find manner. Relatively.

You can also use the search to check a part # and see which other models match. There may be some flexibility beyond that that members here will know, but generally the EPC is the rule.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Sorry to see you got hooked by that. Saab calls the first one the "ignition switch". The second one, that part you need, is called "contact". Odd, but true.

I highly recommend you download the WIS & EPC: WIS and EPC for Windows - SaabCentral Forums

The EPC (Electronic Parts Catalog) will help you with part numbers and diagrams in a relatively easy to find manner. Relatively.

You can also use the search to check a part # and see which other models match. There may be some flexibility beyond that that members here will know, but generally the EPC is the rule.
I appreciate it.

Yeah, it's a bit strange. To further complicate the issue, a few suppliers sell both parts together.

I usually check the EPC or go on esaabparts.com, but did not do enough research this time around. Luckily the ignition "switch" vendor accepted a return.

Anyways, you guys are great! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Finally had time to replace the ignition switch. Unfortunately, it didn't solve the problem!

I haven't put everything back together (center console, A/C switches, etc.), but does it actually matter? I'm going by the turn signal lights, which didn't work after swapping in the new switch.

So, at this point I've:

a) Checked all fuses + cleaned all slots
b) Inspected wiring harness under dash + cleaned all connectors
c) Replaced ignition switch

Next steps?
 

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Have you gone through the WIS procedure for checking the P1640 code? It might find something. The later part of the procedure requires a Tech II. But you can go through the first few tests.

I think that beyond that, you'll need to start tracking voltage in each circuit when it's fouled off. From battery to where it stops.

The only "shotgun" approach left is to pull things open under the dash and just hunt for something that got mashed, or disconnected, etc. during the initial procedure.
 

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I agree, or that B1610 which is very suspicious. The fuse box getting wet is not a problem. Unless it was submerged in water for a while moisture isn't a concern. I think you have two great codes to work from, and WIS will get you to a solution. I'll bet during the course you find the thing that ties it together.
 

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I agree, or that B1610 which is very suspicious. The fuse box getting wet is not a problem. Unless it was submerged in water for a while moisture isn't a concern. I think you have two great codes to work from, and WIS will get you to a solution. I'll bet during the course you find the thing that ties it together.
My own experience with the 1610 is that it's a false flag. Something else is wrong with the SRS system. It seems to throw it as a catch all. Maybe it comes up when any feed sensor (etc) is not properly wired to the main SRS computer i.e. "programming is wrong" which actually means "this configuration doesn't match" because some feed it expects isn't there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Thanks for the input, guys. I'm probably missing something in my inspections. If I only had a bit more experience with this kind of stuff... In any case, I appreciate everyone's patience.

Regarding the WIS diagnosis, I think it would be worthwhile to go over the steps so I know I'm looking in the right places.

#1: Main Relay Circuit. No Voltage to Control Module pin 1.

Main Relay Circuit refers to the relay tray under the dash, correct? Control Module Pin 1 is on the ECU, below glove box, yes?

#2: Fault diagnosis concerns electrical faults in connecting cables or in the relay.

"The relay" here is Engine Management System Main Relay (#13), as seen below?

Rectangle Font Parallel Diagram Number



#3: Diagnostic tool functions related to this fault are: Main relay voltage, in V.

I assume this means to check the voltage to this relay? At this point I don't care of this makes me sound like an idiot, so... how do I do this with a multimeter?

#4: Check the wiring. Jiggle the leads and in-line connectors at various points and in different directions to detect any intermittent breaks or short circuits in the wiring. Observe the multimeter, test lamp or diagnostic tool while doing this.

Again, I assume this refers to the wiring going to the relay tray. I already checked this area for oddities. However, I did not test with a multimeter or Tech II (don't have the latter but know someone locally who does). Specific procedures with either would be appreciated.

That's it for the WIS diagnosis.

Bob, you mentioned: "I think that beyond that, you'll need to start tracking voltage in each circuit when it's fouled off. From battery to where it stops." Could you explain how I should go about doing this? Also, you had mentioned earlier to check the grounds. Where can I find a diagram?

Finally, I re-assembled the center console today. Found two odd things in the process.

Automotive lighting Gadget Audio equipment Hardware programmer Circuit component

I noticed that the soldering on that wire in the upper right corner came loose. I'm honestly not sure if this was already loose or I if knocked it loose during the re-assembly. That said, now I'm getting intermittent start/non-start. When it doesn't start, there's no cranking. It's as if the battery were dead, except all the lights are on, etc. I think I wiggled this piece around and it would then start. Can't be 100% sure though, mainly because I was also hitting the dash area covering the relay tray in total frustration :ROFLMAO:

Electrical wiring Gas Cable Machine Wire
Automotive tire Automotive wheel system Gas Machine Auto part

This is on the A/C fan speed switch and its respective connector. I guess this is why I didn't have fan speed 4 before?

Thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Just an afterthought but... is there any chance that the issue is not related to P1640?

I did have a non-start issue, which appeared to be related to the main relay, but not any more (save for this new issue I described in the last part of my previous post). The original non-start issue was different, though, as the engine would crank but not start.

Is it possible that the P1640 code just got logged after that initial fault?

I don't have a check engine light on, as the WIS describes.
 

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You can always check the WIS to find out what conditions will let a code reset. Under the 1640, OK report, is says it will reset if the voltage is proper and the fault doesn't happen again within 60 seconds. It also seems to say that it will not be set again until the next driving cycle. So, it should go away via a driving cycle if the problem is solved. Note that there's a very specific set of conditions to complete a "driving cycle". You can google "GM driving cycle". The better choice is to reset it and watch for it coming back.

Search for the P1640 (if you still have it) and click on this tool to find the diagnostic procedure. Unfortunately the illustrations may be missing:



#1 - Yes, that's the ECU connector, pin #1.
#2 - I'd concur. Note that the procedure behind the tool (above) will point you at pulling that relay for testing.
#3 - Usually the WIS says to use a test light (as in the test procedure), but I use a DVM.
#4 - Again, test procedure will ID when voltage appears in various places. The other alternative is to start studying the various systems and the position of the ignition switch. It can get kind of thorny.

- You can find a wiring diagram for any component/area. Click Electrical > Wring Harness. Then click the little circuit tool on the right upper side. All components/systems are listed on the right. Double click any listed compnent (e.g. Heating, fuel filter, diesel) to see the diagram for that area:

Rectangle Font Screenshot Parallel Technology


- You can find the grounds themselves in the WIS. Click Electrical > Wiring Harness,Then click the little double-headed arrow tool on the right upper side. See the graphic below. Even component in the system is listed there.

BTW - if you see a component listed with it's number next to is (e.g. 151, 221, etc), you can search for that using the search menu and "Document" search. Works for the error codes too. Searching for a component number is a very handy way to find all the references to that component.
Font Screenshot Parallel Number Document
 

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You shouldn't be able to see that circuit board. The cover that is over that is plastic riveted to the base. It should have come off as one unit. You could either replace the unit (junkyard suggested; there's a chance I have one I could sell you... have to check) or you can try to resolder that wire. That would definitely be a cause for a no-start. However, you should get a message on the SID "Key not accepted".

I would try resoldering the wire first. I'll go 95% on it working again.

Stock it looks like this. Melted plastic rivets circled.

Tool Gas Automotive wheel system Electronic device Auto part
 
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