[gthomp0805]

I have a 94 900se 2.5 injected that is running rough. I have tried everything I can think of to fix this and am almost certain it is an air problem. Here is what I have done:

New plugs. wires, fuel pressure regulator, fuel filter, hoses, cleaned fuel injectors on the car, changed trans fluid, changed coolant, cleaned throttle body and IAC Valve, seafoamed 3 times (no carbon/smoke by the way). I have not performed a compression test yet, the plugs a re carbon fouled which leads me to believe it is burning rich and it is a vacuum issue.

Could it be the o2 sensor? what about the 2 sensors in the air intake tunnel leading to the throttle body? I am really stressed about this. The car has not run right since I bought it 5 months ago and is no fun to drive. Does the car have a modulator valve for the trans that could be bad? I am only getting 9 miles a gallon but my display says 14. 170 miles on an 18 gallon tank does not add up.

Pulling my hair out.:evil:

 

[dirtybird]

the best way to find out if its the o2 sensors it to go back to the auto-parts store and have them pull the codes most of them will do this for free in hopes that you will by the part from them

 

[hkayssi]

Test your coil packs. You forgot to mention the mileage the car has on it.

 

[gthomp0805]

I will do both the codes and the coil pack. Do I test the coil pack with an ohm meter or is there are better way. I know in the old days you would pull the wire off the dist cap while it was running to see if there was spark. Tells you how old I am lol

 

[hkayssi]

look fo a post by Diosnoche on how to test the coil pack. It's very straight forward and easy to do with an ohm meter :cheesy:

 

[hkayssi]

Ok found it. There you go :cheesy:

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91414&highlight=test+coil+pack

 

[gthomp0805]

I have read that the coil packs very rarely have to be changed and that is why I thought this problem was vacumm related. Got it. Will do and update. Thanks.

 

[hkayssi]

Yea..... But it breaks sometimes. I'm saying you should test it to eliminate it as a cause. A bad coil pack causes the same symptoms.

How is the CPS and the fuel pump. The injectors were cleaned but were they tested? Do all the spark plugs look the same? (fouled evenly all 6? Evenly gapped? The same brand as recommended?...etc)

What brand are the new plugs you put in? The OEM ones? Gapped right?

Was the timing belt replace recently? If so, was it replaced right?

 

[gthomp0805]

Yea..... But it breaks sometimes. I'm saying you should test it to eliminate it as a cause. A bad coil pack causes the same symptoms.

OK. No worries I will do this.

How is the CPS and the fuel pump. The injectors were cleaned but were they tested? Do all the spark plugs look the same? (fouled evenly all 6? Evenly gapped? The same brand as recommended?...etc)

Have not checked either and no the injectors were not tested. I bought the tool and did it myself. Yes all 6 plugs are evenly fouled.

What brand are the new plugs you put in? The OEM ones? Gapped right?

They are champion platinum single diode gapped at .6 to .7 mm as specified by the dealer. I tried the dual electrode NGK's but it was suggested in this forum to go to single electrode for ground pruposes.


Was the timing belt replace recently? If so, was it replaced right?

Yes it was replaced by the dealer 500 miles ago so I hope it was done correctly. They did not replace the tensioner though. It was not under warranty.

 

[snoborderphx]

My guess is it's the CPS, the crank position sensor. My old neon (yeah I know I'm not a saab expert but I've experienced a lot with the ole neon) had an issue that kept throughing a CPS error, so I replaced the CPS to find out it was the MPP computer (a factory aftermarket) that was the culprit. I exchanged the computers and didn't have any issues after that.

Sno

 

[gthomp0805]

Just to let you all know I have finally given up (and I dont usually) on this rough running problem. I have tried everything suggested except the codes. I cannot find an ODB1 connector at a reasonable price. I am bringing it to my usual mechanic (the one that sold me the car) and he is going to look at it and come up with a plan. Once we have determined the problem and fixed it I will let you all know. Thanks again for your help.

 

[earthworm]

Running rough ?

How rough ?
Have the mounts been checked out ?
And the dealer did not renew the tensioner ?
IMO, not so good.....:nono; this has nothing to do with the roughness, I know..

Has the compression been checked ??

How well did the wires check out with the Ohm-meter ?
And the distibuter, was the cam play checked out ??

 

[gthomp0805]

Mechanic looked at it and there are 2 bad motor mounts which he will replace for 150.00 labor, I will supply the parts. He also did a fuel pressure test and it read 55 but is supposed to be 43. I had already put in a new pressure regulator so there is another problem. No the dealer did not renew the tensioner because they said it was not under warranty. I have a real issue with this because now my mechanic says it is timing related and a big job. He says if the dealer replaced the tensioned when they had it all opened chances are I would not be having this problem. I have a mind to call Saab customer service but the belt was replaced back in July so I am not sure what I will get out of it.

 

[earthworm]

Mechanic looked at it and there are 2 bad motor mounts All engine have some roughness, they simply must, so the mounts and their design are important... which he will replace for 150.00 labor, I will supply the parts. He also did a fuel pressure test and it read 55 but is supposed to be 43 This may not be the problem; is his gauge calibrated ? This is one for the automotive engineers... I had already put in a new pressure regulator Was the old one leaking, even a little ?? so there is another problem. No the dealer did not renew the tensioner because they said it was not under warranty. This is no excuse, nor a legitimate reason...I have a real issue with this because now my mechanic says it is timing related and a big job. He says if the dealer replaced the tensioned when they had it all opened chances are I would not be having this problem. I have a mind to call Saab customer service but the belt was replaced back in July so I am not sure what I will get out of it.

Saab/GM has heard, I think, a ton of complaints about the V6 and its timing belt problem...
They have responded well, but well enough ???
When it come to quality and QC(quality control) the manufacturers, including the auto-makers have been playing with fire(like 2 year olds), and have been burned to the point of being insensitive...Yet, quite possibly, they have done a better job than anyone.....Compare a Saab or a VW to all the brand X that we deal with on a day to day basis..
Brand X is the home improvement contractors, the computer desk, the house, the town, everything.. the workmanship of millions of technicians, repairmen, "fixer-uppers" - like me..
Brand X should do as well.

The fine art of communications/debating/selling a concept/ listening....We have but scratched the surface.

I feel that your mechanic is correct,IMO..
For an ace mechanic , I think it is possible to determine if the tensioner is "serviceable" or not. A B level mechanic should be able to check out the belt installation and the timing of the camshafts....

Also that Saab and you are pretty much bottomed out on this.
Both parties should have demanded that the job be done properly.
Neither did...
As this is one of my weaknesses as well..

 

[gthomp0805]

Mechanic looked at it and there are 2 bad motor mounts All engine have some roughness, they simply must, so the mounts and their design are important... This I understand and feel it has something to do with the performance and the transmission banging into gear when cold. which he will replace for 150.00 labor, I will supply the parts. He also did a fuel pressure test and it read 55 but is supposed to be 43 This may not be the problem; is his gauge calibrated ? Yes. This is one for the automotive engineers... I had already put in a new pressure regulator Was the old one leaking, even a little ?? Yes we put the old one back on and it did not hold the pressure after performing the test. so there is another problem. No the dealer did not renew the tensioner because they said it was not under warranty. This is no excuse, nor a legitimate reason... understtod but it being from back in JUly, I probably don't have a leg to stand on. I have a real issue with this because now my mechanic says it is timing related and a big job. He says if the dealer replaced the tensioned when they had it all opened chances are I would not be having this problem. I have a mind to call Saab customer service but the belt was replaced back in July so I am not sure what I will get out of it.

At the time I did not think it was timing related. You can see from this thread I have tried everything to save money and that's why I did not bring it to my mechanic in the first place. He has been helpful with suggestions and helping me find parts but I did not want to pay his 90.00/hr labor rate and decided to tackle this on my own. I have learned alot about this car in 4 short months. I feel like I know my car better than my wife right now and that is sad. Now I need to make a decision. Do the timing myself or pay thru the nose for labor as the parts are not too expensive it is the 2 days the mechanic will have the car to get this done.

 

[earthworm]

IF the timing is off, it is a dealer comeback, IMO, even after 5 months, after all, you are not an automotive engineer nor an ace mechanic - nor am I. Even your indie mechanic may have been fooled at first...
If the timing is not off and the tensioner is good, then we are back to square one...
To check the cam timing, one should have the special tool, I think..
Sometimes saving money turns out to be too costly.. :cheesy:

 

[gthomp0805]

I just finished composing a email to Saab HQ in Detroit and await their response. I am looking for the labor fee for opening and reassebling the timing area and I told them I would be happy to pay for replacing the tensioner BTW is grinding like hell and was when I brought the car in 5 months ago. Will keep you posted on the response.

 

[earthworm]

Grinding like hell for the past 5 months ??
Surely thou jests ?


I cannot find Diosnoche's pic of this V6 area, its not pretty, this engine may be finished..
This would be a double come-back !
Too many mechanics make lousy salesmen ; that is why we have service advisors....

 

[Pete67]

Grinding like hell for the past 5 months ??

I can't belive that a belt tensioner with bad bearings could hold out for five months, i would have thought the engine would be killed within seconds.
Good luck with the dealers...

 

[gthomp0805]

OK maybe I overstated. It is definitley coming from the timing belt housing but maybe its another pulley.