SaabCentral Forums banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2001 9-5 that has exhibited a problem for maybe two or three years now: It sometimes fails to start (won't even crank) after a short drive and sitting for about an hour.

I drive to a pool almost every morning, swim for about an hour, and then drive back. It always starts fine first thing in the morning, but once in a while it won't start after swimming. When it fails to start, if I wait about 30 minutes, it then starts fine, as if there never was a problem.

It happens maybe once every few weeks. The dealer has never been able to get it to reproduce, nor to find any fault. If I replace the battery anyway, the problem doesn't happen again for 6-12 month. There's never any indication that the battery is at fault (it always tests fine), but replacing it seems to help for a while.

I have a radar detector plugged in to the cigarette lighter, and it displays the voltage. When the car fails to start, the display is generally just below 12v (maybe 11.8 or 11.9). Once it starts, it's well above 12.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,966 Posts
jump the NSS neutral lockout and then see if it comes back. The two largest wires on the connector are the reverse lockout, you can use a paperclip temporarily on an occasion when it won't start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
occasional failure to start

Could you provide some more explicit details on how to do that? I'm having the same issues as the fellow in the previous post, "Occasional failure to sart."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
Could you provide some more explicit details on how to do that? I'm having the same issues as the fellow in the previous post, "Occasional failure to sart."
Read the link of #3 post
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
try holding the key in start for a few seconds longer than usual and see if that works. I have changed the ignition switch because the key was stuck but it didn't fix the no start problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
Could be the crankshaft position sensor on its way out. Typical symptoms of failure are cold starts are fine, but warm starts are problematic.

The next time you're having this issue watch the tach needle while you're cranking it and its not starting. If the needle is motionless the cps is probably bad, if the needle moves when cranking (its very slight, but visible) then its not the cps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Removing Starter

where is the intake manifold strut on a 2002 Saab 9-5. I need to take two 13 mm bolts off in order to remove the starter. Don't know where to look for them. Any help? Is there a video out there somewhere on removing a starter from a 2002 Saab 9-5?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,794 Posts
where is the intake manifold strut on a 2002 Saab 9-5. I need to take two 13 mm bolts off in order to remove the starter. Don't know where to look for them. Any help? Is there a video out there somewhere on removing a starter from a 2002 Saab 9-5?
Sorry, in case the rest is TL;DR, but why are you trying to pull the starter? If it is simply cranking slowly, there are other things you can do without removing it.

Anyway, I looked at the instructions for 2002 and there's no need to remove a strut.

First, you remove the main battery cable by reaching in from the top. Removing the plastic cover around the oil cover helps. I think it's a 10mm nut, maybe 8mm. Do not disconnect the wire that runs from the solenoid to the end of the starter instead!

Personally, I find trying to remove the smaller solenoid trigger wire to be impossible from above; I would remove it once the starter is loose.

Next, you have to remove the large bolt (18mm) that pokes out horizontally from under the brake booster. It's awkward to get to.

Okay, the next step is to jack the car up and support it safely, because you have to go way underneath to get at the bottom nut. If you don't have a good level floor and at least two sturdy high-quality jackstands, give up. That's what I did.

If you do have these supports--or put the car on the lift--after the nut is off, the starter slips off the stud (may need to be pried loose), and you can disconnect the solenoid trigger line and weasel it out past the intermediate shaft.

This isn't a particularly complicated task, but it takes dexterity, some experience (and WIS diagrams help), and a high regard for safe working. You are way too far under the car, trying to get the starter out, to survive any accident with a jack or jackstand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
The starter slowly starting dying. Now it doesn't even crank over. Just a click. When I get underneath the car and tap it with a hammer (quite hard), then it will start again.
Battery is fine. So is alternator.

Thanks for clarifying about the intake manifold strut.
It's the 18 mm bolt that I'm not sure about either. It's directly under the upper radiator hose I'm told. But is the bolt super long or something. The starter doesn't look like its anywhere near that bolt. Any tricks to get it out. There's no room to move a rachet.

Is that also where the brake booster is? I really need a video or diagram to help me with this one.
Where do I find a WIS diagram?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,794 Posts
The starter slowly starting dying. Now it doesn't even crank over. Just a click. When I get underneath the car and tap it with a hammer (quite hard), then it will start again.
Battery is fine. So is alternator.
You should have the Mitsubishi starter like I do. My starter was turning slower and slower, it was as if the battery was dying, but it was fine.

I got a starter from the junkyard--car is up on a huge cement block so crawling underneath is messy and awkward but not dangerous.

What it looks like to me is that the Mitsubishi starter corrodes where it attaches to the transmission. So my belief is that it's a grounding issue for the starter, not an electrical issue with the starter itself.

So about when I realized that I didn't want to be that far under my car in my driveway, what I did was:


  1. Thoroughly cleaned up the 18mm bolt head and threads, and the transmission area underneath the head. Also, I discovered that the bolt wasn't really tight; it wasn't falling-out-loose, but it sure wasn't in there good. After I reinstalled it, no question about it not being tight. :cheesy:
  2. Cleaned up (by feel) the main battery cable connecting tab and attached it securely back on the starter.
  3. Pulled, cleaned up, and reattached the main ground connector from the battery to the transmission. That took the longest, as it was a real chore to get the bolt loose, and it seemed to have deformed to be triangular. I spent considerable time with my tap and die set cleaning things up.
After all that, the starter cranks a lot faster, and the car doesn't sound as if the battery is dying. I suspect it would work even better if I pulled the starter and cleaned up its mounting surfaces, but for now it's good enough.



It's the 18 mm bolt that I'm not sure about either. It's directly under the upper radiator hose I'm told. But is the bolt super long or something. The starter doesn't look like its anywhere near that bolt. Any tricks to get it out. There's no room to move a rachet.
Believe it or not, it is there and it's long enough. I'd say it's at least 2cm long, maybe 2.5 or 3 (I have a spare with the junkyard starter at home).

With a bit of care, I can tell you that an 18mm ratchet will go on and there's just enough room to turn it. Wear long sleeves or various sharp edges will scrape the heck out of your arms as you remove it!

Look on the bright side, there's a lot more room to access and unscrew this bolt than the similar one on the NG900 (where I had to change the starter, as it did the typical Bosch thing and burnt the main power wire in half).

If you do get the starter out, look for corrosion around its mounting surfaces....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,794 Posts
Thanks for the advice. I managed to get the starter off. I plan to get it remanufactured.
You mean rebuilt by a local shop, right? A 'rebuilt' starter from a parts store can mean anything. The warranty means little because it's you who has to pull the defective reman back out.

I've had the junkyard Mitsu starter apart. It's easy enough to inspect the brushes (first, you must loosen the two Phillips screws on the back!) and clean up the commutator rings.

A totally failed starter can only be a few things:

  1. Brushes gone (easy to diagnose, it's obvious when you take it apart)
  2. Solenoid contact burnt or solenoid toast (I did not succeed in removing the solenoid from the junkyard starter, but it's at least possible to test for coil continuity)
  3. Windings burnt (you can put an ohmmeter on the supply from the solenoid to the starter and on a good ground; if it's well under 1 ohm it's probably okay on windings, though you might want to rotate the armature some
I guess the TL;DR is that it should be possible to have a good idea of what's going on with your present starter with a few hand tools and an ohmmeter.


For what it's worth, when the Bosch starter failed on my 900, I had a starter from a junked car, I cleaned it up, checked the brushes, greased the drive and reduction gears, and installed. It's been starting the 900 for over five years and 140,000 km no problem....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Yes, I am getting it rebuilt by a local shop. I'm not that mechanically inclined to repair it myself! Thanks for you advice though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
heat shield?

Does the starter on a 2002 Saab 9-5 have a heat shield? I'm wondering why the instructions said remove a black tie strap. Mine did not have that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,794 Posts
Does the starter on a 2002 Saab 9-5 have a heat shield? I'm wondering why the instructions said remove a black tie strap. Mine did not have that.
The tie strap holds some cables against the solenoid. I'm not really sure which cables. I do know that I cut a tie strap to remove the junkyard starter, and there's a strap around my car's installed starter, but I haven't identified which cables by feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Well. The starter was cooked. They couldn't rebuild it. I put a new Mitsubishi starter on yesterday, and it starts great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,794 Posts
That's a definite solution!

Maybe someone overheated the starter by continually cranking when the engine wouldn't start for some reason.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top