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I am often caught off guard by how fast T5'd cars feel compared to LH-powered cars, even with the same hardware & limits. The SPG always pulled pretty hard, but it was the typical lag followed by a relatively short bust of torque. With T5 the lag is virtually eliminated and I've definitely won several hundred more rpm of usable power. So far, at 13psi my 228mm clutch has held fine, but it's not hard to start a one wheel tire fire when I get antsy. :)

Over the summer I put a Detroit TrueTrac in my XR4Ti... every time I drive it I wish there was a similar $600 option for the Saab. :/
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I always wanted an XR4Ti. Especially the Cossie. I'd love to drop a B234R into one. A guy I know locally has one with an LS swap. It's pretty awesome. I understand that the old SHO engine was a good swap in the day.

My old T5.2 motor would have to be near 20 lbs of boost before I'd get a touch of slip. That was with the std 900T clutch. So yeah, something is wrong.
I'm lucky enough to have a couple of C900 Quaiffe diffs. Keeps the one wheel spin down, but I guess it has to slip somewhere. I just don't want to start melting gearboxes. Slicks don't spin much...
It would be great if we could get someone to machine a case and then throw the trutrac guts into it. My Astro has the G80 locker and that thing is unstoppable but I may install a trutrac in my Econoline.
 

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I think I know that LS-swapped XR. I have a bunch of pics of the k-member stashed away...

But, I too think of Saab powered XR4Ti... Keeping it an XR4T. I have a spare XR, rwdmotorsport bell housing adapter, and T5 that I will get to someday. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
But, I too think of Saab powered XR4Ti... Keeping it an XR4T. I have a spare XR, rwdmotorsport bell housing adapter, and T5 that I will get to someday. :p
Hmmmm, Motorsport adapter...what does it adapt too?
20 years ago a guy I knew (he had a 302 powered TVR) claimed that the guys who actually worked at SVO would build XR4Ti's with the Cossie rear end and use the SHO V6. The one catch was that you had to use the bellhousing from (get this) an Aerostar V6 5-speed. Find that part and it was nearly a bolt in swap. Whenever I see an Aerostar, I look to see if it has a 5speed...
Also, it would make it an XR4i ;)
 

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The adapter couples a B234 to a Ford T5. There's actually a build thread on the 9000 board for a ratrod using this combo.

I'm not really sure what's to be gained from such a swap. I get nearly 300hp from the Lima 2.3t at 25psi... and I'm sure there is headroom there... I'm still running the stock EFI with a stock tune on a stock bottom end. It's not like the B234 is just all sorts of free power... but it sure would be interesting, and probably have a much wider powerband.

The SHO/Aerostar combo is a good one, but yeah, damn hard to find. The Aerostar's driveshaft is also a good fit for XR4Tis with T5 transmissions. I looked for a while, but ultimately gave up and had a local shop make an aluminum one. The SHO motor was pretty (I had an '89) but the Duratec V6 is at least as good in practice and cheaper to run. The Duratec V6 came in a 240hp 3.0l, so it trumps the SHO on specific output too. David Godfrey (RIP) had an amazing XRT6ti.... a turbocharged Duratec.... it was a beast.


400 or 500hp IIRC.

I'm sure that, like every car, there is no cheaper path to big power these days than an LS swap though!
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
Back to the original subject....
Here's a video of me at the Pioneer Hillclimb near Dillon, MT back a few years ago.
I missed the class record by about 1 second. I only had three runs the hill because I missed the first day...I know I would have had the record with one more run ;) This is the B201/B234 motor with CIS...

 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
What is this black magic???
:LOL:
It may not be all it sounds...
I had a BSI201 bottom end laying around and really really wanted a 16V in the car. I got a B234(B212) head from a junk yard 9000, plus the necessary the 2.1 intake off ebay. So really just a 2.0/2.1.
The original 8.5 cr pistons were pretty scuffed, so I used my last set of 91mm, 8.5 pistons (from my parts store days), O-ringed the block while it was being bored, and that was about it for the engine. 900 intercooler w/ the mandrel bent pipes. Just stock stuff.

I was still trying to figure out T5.x, so I left the CIS in for the time being.
I'd seen CIS on other 16V cars, but they usually involved some sort of spacer to extend out the injector because the long SAAB injectors hit the web between the valves. I didn't like that solution.
BMW 320i injectors are only about 8mm longer than the SAAB bushing. They fit perfect in the bushing and don't interfere in the port. Both the WUR and AAV fit existing bosses or I had to build minor brackets. It really looked retro and cool. Kinda like the '76 16V race engines.
I used an Audi WUR because it has a boost enrichment feature. Cranked up my fuel system pressure. Really did work OK, but in the end, I still coudn't control my timing for top performance.

So I pulled it out all and installed T5.2

That engine and FI came out last year and is sitting in the corner waiting to go into my 78 GLE 5-door. :devilish:
The Mitsu on the car now will probably also go into the GLE after I go to something larger for Frank.

I still want to build a NA 2.1 w/CIS and headers, using a rally fuel distributor that I have. I but if it happens, it will be T5. Just too much HP potential there.
I'm thinking w/ 10.5:1 pistons, light rods and big bore headers, 160-170hp? And light(ish)...
 

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I always wanted to build a motor-only Saab. Back in the day I was talking to Dave K about building one for my 2-door. Then I started talking to a local VW tuner and he convinced me all the 150+ VW 16v cars were either lies or so strung out they weren't drivable and gave up. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
The 2.1 engine is rated at 140 w/ LH, EZK and a really shitty exhaust.
Open up the flow, lighten the internals and give the T5 some love and you should have 165 easy.

And just stumbled on this quote from Wikipedia:
"Engine builder John Nicholson also developed a Formula Three engine from the B202, for use in a Reynard 853 chassis.[1] This version one of the first to use Saab's direct ignition system (SDI) and produced 165 PS (121 kW) at 5600 rpm. Its other strength was high power in an unusually broad powerband for a naturally aspirated racing engine.[1]"

Now I really want to build it!
 

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Really nice videos. Awesome. All I can say is "Wow". The only thing missing is Audio. Would love to hear the sound of the engine, esp on the hillclimb. Really nice car man. Thanks for posting. Got more?
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·

This is a vid I made using just a lo-fi spy cam that I taped to my rear bumper (when I still had one).
It has the best sound of my engine.

I've had several comments regarding how much some of the other drivers like the sound of the car, but I always thought it had an odd sound, myself. BUT, if the new header changes the sound too much, I'll go back to the original. Someone once describe the sound of that old system as sounding like a "V8 trying to run under water"

This particular run was from my first event using the Quaife. You can see at 1:10 where I got a little lost and went over the (HUGE!) crown and got sucked in next to the guard rail. I'm convinced that the Quaife helped me pull back out of it and NOT hit the rail. This was the corner that sets you up for the next corner, known as "Air Bump". A really tricky corner and a car killer. I actually slowed a bit, convinced that I had just really dorked the run. In fact, my 'off' set me up perfectly for Air Bump and just after that corner, I get back on boost and set my (up to then) best time! The grass I went through left marks in my hood paint!
Automotive parking light Car Grille Vehicle Automotive lighting
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Really good video. The exhaust sounds awesome, and the modified shifter is cool. I see you have posted a bunch of videos on You Tube.(y) No major hills around me to climb.
Thanks! I have soooo much video from over the years! I've been racing Frank since 1996!
The shifter is awesome! It was built by Luke Sorenson of SAABRally.com fame. The guys over there (mostly Luke) would often build something for their own cars + a few more for sale. I was lucky to get one from an original purchaser who chose not to destroy their ignition assembly. That's where Frank's real build thread is. That group is how I got my flares, LSD, adjustable Panhard rod and most of my wrong ideas ; )
 
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