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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,
I am thinking of removing the engine block in my 1999 9-5 wagon for rebuild. It has the 2.3 with automatic. I was curious if I unbolt the torque converter from the flywheel, if the engine will hoist out easier than dropping out the bottom, or the much harder out the top with the trans attached. Looking at the spare trans and torque converter I have, it seems as though this would be quite possible and not to stress inducing, and can be done. As I said, I only need the block out, so I might as well leave the trans.

Any thoughts?

Thanks and have an exceptional day,
Alex
 

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I have not done this on a 9-5, but from experience unless you have a lift, it's probably going to be easiest to remove from the top. I usually prefer to pull the engine and trans together, but to make it a little easier as far as clearance, you should be able to unbolt the torque converter bolts and remove the engine separate from the transmission fairly easily. I've done it this way a few times on Volvos, Miatas, and Dodge Durangos and it worked well.
 

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I have removed both manuals and automatics through the top. AFAIK you can't pull only the block out the top, you have to pull the transmission with it. I could be wrong with this so anyone with more knowledge than me feel free to correct me. It may be possible to remove only the block with an automatic. Removing the engine is not a very hard process, the key is to remove the crank pulley. This is done through the right hand side tire well. If you don't have an impact to bust the bolt loose, you may find it difficult to remove. I have not bothered to drop one out the bottom as I do not have the proper kind of lift for it, but I have found pulling them through the top is easy enough. This may be a helpful resource in case you haven't already found it: http://www.serioussaab.co.uk/Procs_pages/proc_pages/p_pwrunitrem.html
 

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You can do just what you propose, there are a couple of tricks that you need to do in order to make it happen. I just did this two weeks ago so the process is "fresh" in my mind

  • Unbolt the AC compressor and hang it on a strap so that you don't have to do the AC system again, there's a convenient "hook" on the bracket for installing so make use of it
  • Unbolt the power steering pump and push it under where the MAF went so you don't have to undo all of those hoses
  • Take the throttle body off so you don't break the limp-home solenoid on the back, it's made of plastic
  • You will have to remove the alternator so that you can remove the bracket that holds the intermediate shaft to the engine. The one bolt behind the inner driver on the bracket is a pain, it won't come all the way out with the axle in there so you have to work it out. Do the other two first. pull that away from the engine as it's staying in the car.
  • Sit the transmission on top of a 2x4 from the left front wheel well and then take the mount as well as the thing that the mount connects to so that you can slide the transmission over an inch or so
  • remove the fans, two bolts on the side of the radiator and one on the bottom in the middle
  • Then the usual stuff has to come off. Crank pulley, rear engine mount, transmission torque mount, starter, oil cooler hoses, coolant and turbo hoses, exhaust down pipe, etc. It also helps to unbolt the big aluminum thing from the transmission that bolts onto the rear mount to get it out of the way.
  • The wiring harness can come with the engine but you have to undo it from the ECU or you can unbolt all of the wires and flip them onto the windshield.
  • unbolt the injector rail and pull it, flip it onto the windshield so you don't have to und that and get gas all over the place.
  • unbolt the torque converter, push it back from the flywheel. Stuff something up through the hole in the bottom of the transmission to hold it in place. This is especially important on the install to make sure it is seated. Last time I used a wood wedge hammered into the housing.
  • Now it's time to pull. A slight tilt with the crank pulley end up a little bit will get the flywheel around the nub that sticks out of the torque converter. Once the bolts on the flex plate clear the top of the transmission it's straight up from there.
What comes with the engine is the intake manifold and associated stuff, exhaust manifold, turbo, cobra pipe, and the wishbone for the right side motor mount.

All in all, not a bad pull. If you can get the bolts off easily (e.g. no rust) it should take you about 4-hours or so.

Alternator: 8mm Allen for the mounting bolts, 8mm for the small wire, 13mm for the large wire, make sure you clean out the Allen holes and have the socket seated fully since they tend to stick and you DO NOT want to strip those!
Belt tensioner: 8mm, stubby if you have one makes it easier
Starter: 10mm for the small wire, 13mm for the large wire and 18mm for the two bolts (one from the transmission side)
engine to transmission: 18mm, 4 bolts aside from the starter
intermediate shaft bracket: 12mm (some engines have 13mm on them
Torque converter: 13mm, 11mm for the cover
aluminum mount: 18mm, long extension to get in there. The bolt on the motor mount is 16mm
Radiator: 8mm on the bottom, 10mm on the sides
Turbo/Exhaust: 13mm
throttle body: 10mm, including cover for the throttle cable
fuel injector rail: 10mm
wiring harness grounds and bracket: 10mm with a couple of good extensions and flex connector
oil cooler hoses: 10mm


That's probably most of the bolt sizes.

good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You can do just what you propose, there are a couple of tricks that you need to do in order to make it happen. I just did this two weeks ago so the process is "fresh" in my mind

  • Unbolt the AC compressor and hang it on a strap so that you don't have to do the AC system again, there's a convenient "hook" on the bracket for installing so make use of it
  • Unbolt the power steering pump and push it under where the MAF went so you don't have to undo all of those hoses
  • Take the throttle body off so you don't break the limp-home solenoid on the back, it's made of plastic
  • You will have to remove the alternator so that you can remove the bracket that holds the intermediate shaft to the engine. The one bolt behind the inner driver on the bracket is a pain, it won't come all the way out with the axle in there so you have to work it out. Do the other two first. pull that away from the engine as it's staying in the car.
  • Sit the transmission on top of a 2x4 from the left front wheel well and then take the mount as well as the thing that the mount connects to so that you can slide the transmission over an inch or so
  • remove the fans, two bolts on the side of the radiator and one on the bottom in the middle
  • Then the usual stuff has to come off. Crank pulley, rear engine mount, transmission torque mount, starter, oil cooler hoses, coolant and turbo hoses, exhaust down pipe, etc. It also helps to unbolt the big aluminum thing from the transmission that bolts onto the rear mount to get it out of the way.
  • The wiring harness can come with the engine but you have to undo it from the ECU or you can unbolt all of the wires and flip them onto the windshield.
  • unbolt the injector rail and pull it, flip it onto the windshield so you don't have to und that and get gas all over the place.
  • unbolt the torque converter, push it back from the flywheel. Stuff something up through the hole in the bottom of the transmission to hold it in place. This is especially important on the install to make sure it is seated. Last time I used a wood wedge hammered into the housing.
  • Now it's time to pull. A slight tilt with the crank pulley end up a little bit will get the flywheel around the nub that sticks out of the torque converter. Once the bolts on the flex plate clear the top of the transmission it's straight up from there.
What comes with the engine is the intake manifold and associated stuff, exhaust manifold, turbo, cobra pipe, and the wishbone for the right side motor mount.

All in all, not a bad pull. If you can get the bolts off easily (e.g. no rust) it should take you about 4-hours or so.

Alternator: 8mm Allen for the mounting bolts, 8mm for the small wire, 13mm for the large wire, make sure you clean out the Allen holes and have the socket seated fully since they tend to stick and you DO NOT want to strip those!
Belt tensioner: 8mm, stubby if you have one makes it easier
Starter: 10mm for the small wire, 13mm for the large wire and 18mm for the two bolts (one from the transmission side)
engine to transmission: 18mm, 4 bolts aside from the starter
intermediate shaft bracket: 12mm (some engines have 13mm on them
Torque converter: 13mm, 11mm for the cover
aluminum mount: 18mm, long extension to get in there. The bolt on the motor mount is 16mm
Radiator: 8mm on the bottom, 10mm on the sides
Turbo/Exhaust: 13mm
throttle body: 10mm, including cover for the throttle cable
fuel injector rail: 10mm
wiring harness grounds and bracket: 10mm with a couple of good extensions and flex connector
oil cooler hoses: 10mm


That's probably most of the bolt sizes.

good luck!
Thanks again, I will get at her asap. I will detail the process on the YouTube channel if anyone is interested.
 

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I have removed both manuals and automatics through the top. AFAIK you can't pull only the block out the top, you have to pull the transmission with it. I could be wrong with this so anyone with more knowledge than me feel free to correct me. It may be possible to remove only the block with an automatic. Removing the engine is not a very hard process, the key is to remove the crank pulley. This is done through the right hand side tire well. If you don't have an impact to bust the bolt loose, you may find it difficult to remove. I have not bothered to drop one out the bottom as I do not have the proper kind of lift for it, but I have found pulling them through the top is easy enough. This may be a helpful resource in case you haven't already found it: http://www.serioussaab.co.uk/Procs_pages/proc_pages/p_pwrunitrem.html
yes, to pull out the top on a manual you must bring the transmission along with it, which of course means unbolting the entire front suspension and an alignment after.

There is JUST ENOUGH room to separate the automatic and get the engine out without the transmission so you don't have to unbolt the suspension and do an alignment.

Pulling the entire power plant out the top (auto or manual) is not that hard, yes the key is the crank pulley. Getting eh bolt off without an impact on a manual is pretty simple. have someone put the car in gear and stand on the brakes. On the automatic you have to stop the transmission from turning. I use a strap of metal I got a Home Depot that I bolt to one of the torque converter bolts and to one of the holes in the bottom of the transmission housing. Does the trick every time.
 

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Thanks again, I will get at her asap. I will detail the process on the YouTube channel if anyone is interested.
One other thing. Drain the transmission. When you pull and push the transmission around the seal on the intermediate shaft will leak. No sense making a mess and it's time to change your transmission oil anyway!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
yes, to pull out the top on a manual you must bring the transmission along with it, which of course means unbolting the entire front suspension and an alignment after.

There is JUST ENOUGH room to separate the automatic and get the engine out without the transmission so you don't have to unbolt the suspension and do an alignment.

Pulling the entire power plant out the top (auto or manual) is not that hard, yes the key is the crank pulley. Getting eh bolt off without an impact on a manual is pretty simple. have someone put the car in gear and stand on the brakes. On the automatic you have to stop the transmission from turning. I use a strap of metal I got a Home Depot that I bolt to one of the torque converter bolts and to one of the holes in the bottom of the transmission housing. Does the trick every time.
Already had it off for the timing cover, so it will be an easy off. I have the pan off so I will just put a rod in one of the holes on the crank like I did before to keep it from rotating while undoing that bolt. I am going to fab up a leveler/tilter for the hoist to make it much easier.
 

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One other thing. Drain the transmission. When you pull and push the transmission around the seal on the intermediate shaft will leak. No sense making a mess and it's time to change your transmission oil anyway!
where is that seal? Fluid already changed. Had it all back together, and still rattled. So I am at a loss and might as well pull the engine and start fresh ;)
 

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where is that seal? Fluid already changed. Had it all back together, and still rattled. So I am at a loss and might as well pull the engine and start fresh ;)
seals are where the intermediate shaft and the other axle go into the differential. Believe me you want to drain the oil, it'll be a mess if you don't. (and you'll have your engine hoist in there so getting in to put a pan under it will be difficult).

you're still going to need to keep the flex plate from moving when you put the engine back in and I would recommend that you re-seal the sump and timing cover while the engine is out. it's SOOOOO much easier and you can get it right (see my thread "damned oil leak") about why!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
seals are where the intermediate shaft and the other axle go into the differential. Believe me you want to drain the oil, it'll be a mess if you don't. (and you'll have your engine hoist in there so getting in to put a pan under it will be difficult).

you're still going to need to keep the flex plate from moving when you put the engine back in and I would recommend that you re-seal the sump and timing cover while the engine is out. it's SOOOOO much easier and you can get it right (see my thread "damned oil leak") about why!
oh that's definitely the truth, I resealed both already. The pan is easy, the timing cover, not so much.... it was a PITA lol and thanks, I will definitely drain it before I start
 

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oh that's definitely the truth, I resealed both already. The pan is easy, the timing cover, not so much.... it was a PITA lol and thanks, I will definitely drain it before I start
Quite honestly I don't know how anyone can get that timing cover re-sealed properly with the engine in the car. (and apparently someone did it with my engine and it leaked right under the chain tensioner. (and leaked A LOT)

Sealing up either of them is trivial with the engine out.


BTW, I read a tip on the timing cover without taking the head off. use a 3/8 tap to thread the inside of the dowels that line it up on the block and pull them out. Then slide the timing cover up against the head with sealant and snug the it up with a couple of bolts. Then drive the dowels through the timing cover into the block to align it properly and finish bolting it up. I didn't have to do this since I had the head off on mine so it was no big deal.
 

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Quite honestly I don't know how anyone can get that timing cover re-sealed properly with the engine in the car. (and apparently someone did it with my engine and it leaked right under the chain tensioner. (and leaked A LOT)

Sealing up either of them is trivial with the engine out.

BTW, I read a tip on the timing cover without taking the head off. use a 3/8 tap to thread the inside of the dowels that line it up on the block and pull them out. Then slide the timing cover up against the head with sealant and snug the it up with a couple of bolts. Then drive the dowels through the timing cover into the block to align it properly and finish bolting it up. I didn't have to do this since I had the head off on mine so it was no big deal.
Yea I read that trick someplace on here. This one came off nicely without pulling the pins. I just couldn't get the cover to snake free from the car. I got it installed right with no leaks, but I am OCD with my Saabs and repairing them lol. Wish I had an extra cylinder head to practice polishing and porting it while the block is away for cleaning and machining
 

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Yea I read that trick someplace on here. This one came off nicely without pulling the pins. I just couldn't get the cover to snake free from the car. I got it installed right with no leaks, but I am OCD with my Saabs and repairing them lol. Wish I had an extra cylinder head to practice polishing and porting it while the block is away for cleaning and machining
I have an extra head lying around that my machine shop said had a couple of bent valves (although I couldn't see what they were talking about).

I also have an extra block lying around that came from my old engine that spun a rod. bearing and destroyed the crank. If you're interested maybe we can work something out. you can then send all of that stuff out while the engine is still in the car and running!
 

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I have an extra head lying around that my machine shop said had a couple of bent valves (although I couldn't see what they were talking about).

I also have an extra block lying around that came from my old engine that spun a rod. bearing and destroyed the crank. If you're interested maybe we can work something out. you can then send all of that stuff out while the engine is still in the car and running!
That would depend on how far away from michigan you are, the shipping would kill me on the heavy stuff. Just looked, Pittsburgh
 

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That would depend on how far away from michigan you are, the shipping would kill me on the heavy stuff. Just looked, Pittsburgh
Greyhound is actually reasonably cheap for shipping big and heavy stuff. But you have to go to the Greyhound depot to drop off and pick up.

LMK and I can figure out how to make a crate (I have tons of throw-away pallets) to send. Last week I could have even bolted the head to the block but I tossed the head bolts left over from my job.
 

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Greyhound is actually reasonably cheap for shipping big and heavy stuff. But you have to go to the Greyhound depot to drop off and pick up.

LMK and I can figure out how to make a crate (I have tons of throw-away pallets) to send. Last week I could have even bolted the head to the block but I tossed the head bolts left over from my job.
I will have to let you know but I can look into the greyhound thing
 

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I took mine out and put in thru the bottom. What destroyed my hopes was the converter got damaged when disconnecting I hadn't undid the TC as suggested. Engine was hanging, trans was on blocks and although equally balanced one hanging one sitting, on the actual seperation there became a slight height difference of about one to two inches, and that caused the spline shaft to bend/snap something in the inner part of TC. I couldn't see damage looking into the TC but what alerted me to know was I could not get fluid back into the TC to charge it before connecting. It was blocked. When I redid engine up and had all running the TC was slowing and playing with the engine speed so was missing and knocking and pinging.
So, next time I will take eng/trans out as a unit, as you would do taking trannie and engine from top, and NOT disconnect while in situ, but take them away into the workarea where there is space and support well for their disconnection and removal
I thought I would have bigger issues as was on a sloped driveway and no choice with location, but I still could have removed these together as a unit. It was easy to take engine out this way, as video shows.

 

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I took mine out and put in thru the bottom. What destroyed my hopes was the converter got damaged when disconnecting I hadn't undid the TC as suggested. Engine was hanging, trans was on blocks and although equally balanced one hanging one sitting, on the actual seperation there became a slight height difference of about one to two inches, and that caused the spline shaft to bend/snap something in the inner part of TC. I couldn't see damage looking into the TC but what alerted me to know was I could not get fluid back into the TC to charge it before connecting. It was blocked. When I redid engine up and had all running the TC was slowing and playing with the engine speed so was missing and knocking and pinging.
So, next time I will take eng/trans out as a unit, as you would do taking trannie and engine from top, and NOT disconnect while in situ, but take them away into the workarea where there is space and support well for their disconnection and removal
I thought I would have bigger issues as was on a sloped driveway and no choice with location, but I still could have removed these together as a unit. It was easy to take engine out this way, as video shows.

Thanks for the info. It looked like he walked it on concrete but I couldn’t tell. My phone screen is small. I plan on dropping it out the bottom on a dolly.
 
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