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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
2002 9-3 SE, b205r, auto-trans, 5Dr hatchback, 230k km, PCV update installed. Has good OEM DIC and NGK Plugs. Did full oil flush when I bought the car, including dropping the oil pan and pulling the valve cover.

My car all of a sudden started loping after pulling out of a parking lot, it shakes the car very severely, it almost feels like going over a rumble strip in the shoulder of the road, but worse, the engine also visibly flexes when the revs spike, along with the front wheels (if the brakes are depressed).

The revs are very stable in idle, and neutral, with no vibrations at all, but once in drive the revs immediately start dropping to 500-600rpm and then going back up to 1000-1100, it jolts and pulls the car quite a lot, I tried taking it down the road to see if it was just an issue at low speeds in gear and the problem persisted. I have to note the issue is way less severe in reverse, I assume this must be because there is less of a load on the engine in reverse due to the gearing.

There is a slight scraping sound while the engine is running coming from somewhere in behind the driver side wheel, which I've never noticed before this started, I do not know if the scraping persists as the car moves up in gears, as it isn't audible once the tires start rolling, just not loud enough.

I suspected my DIC, as I've had issues with it forever and I thought it finally gave out on me as I was getting a new code from it (camshaft pos sensor), I replaced the DIC right away which cleared up every code, but the problem persisted, have yet to get another code.

From what I've read online it seems to either be a fuel issue, throttle body, or a vacuum leak. I was hoping someone in here would be able to share some information if they've had a similar experience, as I hope to be able to fix this with some help.
 

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2000 9-3 Aero 5d
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I'm kind of thinking something you haven't listed - engine mount, based on your first sentence. It could be a combination of several things, based on the 'scraping sound' and other factors.
Does it do this in all gears?
Did you have any special settings (sport mode, winter mode) on?
Not everything will throw a code.
Vacuum leaks - do a visual check of your vacuum lines. Check the 'check valves'. If a vacuum line is off - it should be easy to spot. If your vacuum lines are in poor shape, then maybe replace them.
So you replaced the CPS or the DIC?
Cheap non OEM DIC and CPS can cause issues. Hopefully, you used a good quality version.
Failing DIC can cause issues. Most of us carry a spare DIC.
If you've had issues with your DIC - then maybe you should replace it and the spark plugs at the same time.

The scraping could be several things. Start the car without the AC on. That way you can rule the AC off the list. Next, you'll want to be looking at your serpentine belt & pulleys to check they are not causing issues.

Take a video, and give some more details about the car - ie what mileage does it have, Does it have the PCV update installed?
Then we can start helping you a little more.
 

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2002 Saab 9-3 SE 4AT
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I'm kind of thinking something you haven't listed - engine mount, based on your first sentence. It could be a combination of several things, based on the 'scraping sound' and other factors.
Does it do this in all gears?
Did you have any special settings (sport mode, winter mode) on?
Not everything will throw a code.
Vacuum leaks - do a visual check of your vacuum lines. Check the 'check valves'. If a vacuum line is off - it should be easy to spot. If your vacuum lines are in poor shape, then maybe replace them.
So you replaced the CPS or the DIC?
Cheap non OEM DIC and CPS can cause issues. Hopefully, you used a good quality version.
Failing DIC can cause issues. Most of us carry a spare DIC.
If you've had issues with your DIC - then maybe you should replace it and the spark plugs at the same time.

The scraping could be several things. Start the car without the AC on. That way you can rule the AC off the list. Next, you'll want to be looking at your serpentine belt & pulleys to check they are not causing issues.

Take a video, and give some more details about the car - ie what mileage does it have, Does it have the PCV update installed?
Then we can start helping you a little more.
Thank you for your input mort, here is the additional information;

The engine mounts are definitely not perfect, but they're not shot. When the engine surges up you can see it visibly flex, but you can tell it is still secure, if you know what I mean. Its not jumping anywhere on start up sort of thing.

The scraping isn't loud enough to hear once the tires are rolling, so not sure if it persists as the car moves up in gears. Might be able to rig a microphone and find out. Also as I noted scraping sound is only really audible with your head up against the drivers side wheel, so whatever it is is low down and on the left side, definitely not the pullies, or serpentine belt. It isn't the AC either, already pulled those fuses. If you meant does the loping persist through the gears then yes, it does. It is much less severe is reverse.

I had only just come out of the store so no, I did not have sport or winter mode on when it started. Just shifted into drive.

As far as I'm aware there isn't actually a CPS in trionic 7, I replaced the DIC with an OEM one, which cleared up all of my codes along with the CPS code, have not had any come back. I also have new NGK Plugs installed.

I am going to meticulously go over all of the little silicone vacuum lines today, do you know the size of these lines? Going to replace any that look questionable.

I have done the PCV update, the car has 230k km, and I will take a video if I make it down there today so you can more accurately see what's going on.
 

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Silicone tubes 3 mm internal diameter. Some of us use 4 mm.

Note that generic OBD code readers can be a bit vague. As you know, your engine has no camshaft position sensor, its a crankshaft pos. sensor. Front of the block, behind a metal shield, near the first oxygen sensor. Your engine has no throttle position sensor or IAC valve as both functions are done by the electronic throttle <> ECU communication.

I thought engine mounts too, especially as your engine jumps about a lot. The easiest one to deal with is the torque rod joining the front of the gearbox to the subframe. The square rear bush deteriorates, the forward round one is immortal. Remove the arm from beneath.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Silicone tubes 3 mm internal diameter. Some of us use 4 mm.

Note that generic OBD code readers can be a bit vague. As you know, your engine has no camshaft position sensor, its a crankshaft pos. sensor. Front of the block, behind a metal shield, near the first oxygen sensor. Your engine has no throttle position sensor or IAC valve as both functions are done by the electronic throttle <> ECU communication.

I thought engine mounts too, especially as your engine jumps about a lot. The easiest one to deal with is the torque rod joining the front of the gearbox to the subframe. The square rear bush deteriorates, the forward round one is immortal. Remove the arm from beneath.
Thank you for the reply Doug. I have learned since posting this last night that the IAC, and throttle pos sensor are both replaced by the throttle body in these cars, so that is definitely going to be my first place I check out after carefully going over the vacuum lines, also thanks for the sizing.

I do not think it's my engine mounts, I will try to get a video so you can understand what I mean, the engine does not budge at all when you start it, and is only flexing up from the torque as the engine lopes, the mounts are definitely not perfect, but they're there. If it was the engine mounts making the car vibrate, that would only be part of the issue right, the main issue is that the engine is loping, not the vibrations, the vibrations only started with the loping too.

Edit: when I get the car up I will definitely look at the gear box and engine mounts either way. Thanks for the tips.
 

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2000 93 SE Vert Auto 2001 93 SE Vert 5spd
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I believe Trionic 7's have a CPS - Crankshaft Position Sensor part #55557326. It's below the exhaust manifold on the drivers side, can be a bit difficult to get replace. On my car it caused the car to sputter/misfire occasionally has I drove down the road.

If I understand correctly, the sound is coming from the driver/left side and is only an issue when the car is in gear. The driver side is the side on which the transmission is mounted. Do you think it might be in the engine/tranny interface? You might want to check the tranny fluid level, but it probably won't solve the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I believe Trionic 7's have a CPS - Crankshaft Position Sensor part #55557326. It's below the exhaust manifold on the drivers side, can be a bit difficult to get replace. On my car it caused the car to sputter/misfire occasionally has I drove down the road.

If I understand correctly, the sound is coming from the driver/left side and is only an issue when the car is in gear. The driver side is the side on which the transmission is mounted. Do you think it might be in the engine/tranny interface? You might want to check the tranny fluid level, but it probably won't solve the issue.
Thanks for the reply.

The T7s do have a crank pos. sensor, but not a camshaft pos. sensor, which is what I threw a code for.. I know how easy they are to mix up hahah, I had to double check I didn't say crank pos sensor myself😂

Checking the tranny fluid was one of the first things I did, looked good. The sound isn't only present while in gear, just the loping revs, the sound actually pretty much goes away in gear, as it's drowned out by the tires on the pavement, and other noises. It certainly is a bit disconcerting though.
 

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Thanks for the reply.

The T7s do have a crank pos. sensor, but not a camshaft pos. sensor, which is what I threw a code for.. I know how easy they are to mix up hahah, I had to double check I didn't say crank pos sensor myself😂

Checking the tranny fluid was one of the first things I did, looked good. The sound isn't only present while in gear, just the loping revs, the sound actually pretty much goes away in gear, as it's drowned out by the tires on the pavement, and other noises. It certainly is a bit disconcerting though.
I also instantly went engine mount , tranny side . Not related to rev drop though , different issues there possibly
take the left hand wheel off with it on a stand , let it idle in 1st on the stand , see if that helps pinpoint a sound .
It isnt worn disc pads by any chance ? Are the CV boots torn ?
Its wild stabbing without being able to hear
 

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I also instantly went engine mount , tranny side . Not related to rev drop though , different issues there possibly
take the left hand wheel off with it on a stand , let it idle in 1st on the stand , see if that helps pinpoint a sound .
It isnt worn disc pads by any chance ? Are the CV boots torn ?
Its wild stabbing without being able to hear
Also , you did say you replaced the cam shaft sensor and that cleeared codes in your 1st post . You mean you replaced the crank position sensor ? Yes ? If yes , was it new ? was it Bosch ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I also instantly went engine mount , tranny side . Not related to rev drop though , different issues there possibly
take the left hand wheel off with it on a stand , let it idle in 1st on the stand , see if that helps pinpoint a sound .
It isnt worn disc pads by any chance ? Are the CV boots torn ?
Its wild stabbing without being able to hear
I will get a video today for you to listen to, I have maintained this vehicle well, the pads and rotors on the front have less than 5000km on them, I also checked the CV axle boots and there's nothing concerning. I've seen plenty of cars with bad engine mounts and this is not it, trust me, the engine doesn't even shake on startup, it'd be jumping around if the engine mounts were worn out, afaik.

Will get a video this afternoon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Also , you did say you replaced the cam shaft sensor and that cleeared codes in your 1st post . You mean you replaced the crank position sensor ? Yes ? If yes , was it new ? was it Bosch ?
I never said I replaced the camshaft pos sensor, there isn't one. I guess my wording is confusing people, the DIC is what throws a camshaft pos sensor code on these cars, because they do its job, as you probably know, which is why I replaced my DIC after getting camshaft pos sensor error.

My exact words were "I suspected my DIC, as I've had issues with it forever and I thought it finally gave out on me as I was getting a new code from it (camshaft pos sensor), I replaced that right away which cleared up every code, but the problem persisted, have yet to get another code." By 'that', I meant the DIC. I never said I replaced the crank position sensor.

Thanks for the reply.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Then my next question is how you know the engine is vibrating vs. the drive line.
I don't, no way to tell right now whatsoever, I actually mentioned in a different forum that the vibrations felt like they were traveling from the bottom of the car up, moreso felt like it was coming from the front wheels, but that doesn't rule out the fact it could be the drivetrain, as it's fwd.

I actually don't think it's my engine mounts, which is clearly an unpopular opinion here, considering my engine doesn't budge a millimeter when it's being cranked up to start, I'd say I'm fine there.

From the beginning I've been thinking it feels like two seperate issues have coincidentally started at the exact same time.
 
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