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I had a little luck with mine so far turned out to have some really bogus plugs and a bad ignition knock off ignition . I'm really rooting for you. hope you figure it out. if I can think of anything else I'll chime in again. I've got a little power issue in my 2003 SE going on intermittent ABS light coming on and off so the speedometer keeps going in and out and the convertible top doesn't want to go up and down correctly unless the ABS light is off so there's got to be a ground issue in my mind the powers back feed and somehow. But I'm wondering if it's not the ignition as well. As everybody says the ignition can do a lot of strange things. So I'll share any information I come up with on the ignition with you over the next week and I look forward to any information you have as well. Hope you figure it out soon.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I'm hesitant to jump in with possibly 'red herring' information, BUT I'd really like to see you get it going, so I'll take the risk of suggesting that you re-re-check the grounds. The ground wire fastened onto the thermostat housing is one example notorious for not getting tight enough - though I don't know how its absence affects the starting circuits.

The ignition switch DOES sound very plausible - I had to replace the switch portion on our 1999 SE at 226K miles. It was easier to diagnose, because the car would sometimes start and sometimes not, depending on how the key was held. The momentary "key not recognized" showed up too.

Search on "testing ignition switch" on this board and on saab net, to get advice on best points to test power.

If you do have to replace the ignition switch, be very careful with the transmission shift cable. I broke the cable at a weak spot where it passes through the one bulkhead. This can be avoided by following all the WIS steps that some mechanics are tempted to skip, and I was part of that group.
Thanks. Yeah it definitely wouldn't hurt to go over the grounds multiple times.
Great suggestions, I'll definitely check that out.


I had a little luck with mine so far turned out to have some really bogus plugs and a bad ignition knock off ignition . I'm really rooting for you. hope you figure it out. if I can think of anything else I'll chime in again. I've got a little power issue in my 2003 SE going on intermittent ABS light coming on and off so the speedometer keeps going in and out and the convertible top doesn't want to go up and down correctly unless the ABS light is off so there's got to be a ground issue in my mind the powers back feed and somehow. But I'm wondering if it's not the ignition as well. As everybody says the ignition can do a lot of strange things. So I'll share any information I come up with on the ignition with you over the next week and I look forward to any information you have as well. Hope you figure it out soon.
Sounds like you may need your abs module rebuilt soon?
I'm thinking once I get this going again, that might be the next thing because my speedometer was not working as well, and I had an ABS warning.

Of course, the dice unit also wasn't married, but is now, so who knows what'll be different once it gets power again, haha!

I'm not sure I'll have a chance to look at it again for a couple more weeks. I was trying to get it done for my friend to drive but, I'm 8 days away from a 7000 mile trip and I have to prepare a new-to-us, 34yo RV.
 

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You were right on with the abs module .i replaced it and everything came back to normal. unfortunately it was a junk yard module and it's not 100 percent.i was wondering if the guys that have had them rebuilt have had longevity after the rebuild.my experience with rebuilds on electronics has been short periods until they break again like 6 to 9 months.so I'd love to hear how people have faired with tc/abs rebuilds.thanks hope the vacay goes great.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Well I'm back from my "vacation".
Supposed to be 16 days of travelling with the kids.
Ended up with my partner in the ICU on the 6th day and me eventually having to drive home solo as she'll possibility have to be there several more weeks... 😞
She's going to be ok and fortunately her mom and best friend are able to stay with her.

So I've got an ignition switch and I'm going to try that out.
It occurs to me that this is going to mean I have to have 2 keys, now.

Let's hope this works, I could really use something positive about now.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Ok so....not the switch or, maybe the switch, intermittently??

Put a freshly charged battery in to roll the windows down, before replacing the ignition switch.

"Key not recognized" came up.
Turned off, tried again, and it tried to start......
Didn't start but, I'm not worried about at the moment, I can figure that out later if need be. Could just be from sitting for so long.

So, transponder antenna issue? Still the ignition switch?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
It appears that I only get the "Key not recognized" after trying to start a couple times with no ignition.
I realized I wasn't getting spark when I tried to use a little starting fluid.
It would still try to start, intermittently, but nothing more than a sputter.

I hooked up my T2 and found that the immobilizer was now active, after not doing anything to the car for a month.

I went through the TWICE programming and cleared the immobilizer issue through the programing process (B1782 Immobilizer Active & B2385 Transponder Key, Missing), as well as the P1406 Immobilizer Active in the T7.

I'm showing EHU/IHU Radio/Infotainment Missing as well as the Airbag system.
Infotainment seems to be intermittently working.


I also had a MIU B1705 Speed Signal Missing which I would assume is relative to a failing/failed ABS 5.3 but I don't think this should effect starting.

After clearing/programming everything relative to the immobilizer I still get a crank and no start.
It seems that the "Key not recognized" can trigger the immobilizer, maybe? Or low battery voltage?

So I am definitely having problems with the transponder/antenna and I imagine I should focus on that.
I didn't bother changing the ignition switch as it seemed to be working now but, could this cause the intermittent functioning of the EHU/IHU?

Before I hooked up the T2 I replaced the Crank position sensor. I wasn't getting codes for that but I remembered before thinking the conditions I was experiencing could be relative to that and it was old anyway.
Of course, no change.

I'm also now getting a P1654 Fuel Pump Relay code.
WIS has the parameters for the relay but I don't see a specific procedure for testing this?
(swapped relay with another and this is gone)



**So I realized I hadn't posted this and was coming back to post an update**

I can get communication to the IHU from diagnostics>body in T2, but shows "missing" when trying to connect under "All"
Same with TCM.

After clearing all DTC all that remains are the two in the DICE unit:
B2355 Evaporative Temperature Sensor. Open Circuit / Short to B+
B2480 Intermittent Wiper Switch. Out of Range

Dash lights seem "brighter", IHU stays on, dispalying "front light failure" (I disconnected the headlights to lower power draw)

I also realized that I had my battery charger on only 2a instead of 8a so I wasn't getting s**t for charge.
I also have a standalone power source that I use for BMW that I can use to provide sustained power during programming/diagnostics.

Any ideas?

I am fully expecting to see the immobilizer codes to come back after I try to start again, here when the battery is fully charged.


I appreciate any input anyone may have.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Well, all other things aside, i think I am going to need another TWICE unit/key/transponder/receiver.
I keep getting the "key not accepted" and the antenna assembly seems to be less than solid, anyway.
Found one on ebay for $120 w/key

Just for the hell of it I put my old DICE unit in and it actually got rid of the B2355 Evaporator Temp Sensor code, and the B2480 Intermittent Wiper Switch out of range, remains

I think that I may have initially tried to replace this BECAUSE of the intermittent wiper issue, as WIS states this as a condition for "Checking that the control modules allow diagnostic communication"

I know I also replaced the TCM, even though it's showing as "missing", maybe that used one is bad, too.

Also have a used ABS unit coming, hopefully that is good.

I am going to assume (hope) that the low voltage conditions were affecting the IHU.

Security system is flashing twice every 3 seconds so that tells me the immobilizer is still active.


It's pretty damn defeating at this point, but, what can you do.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Tried switching back to the old TCM just to see what happens.

Still no communication with TCM, T2 now shows ESP, ACC, IHU, TCM, AND Trionic 7 missing, and radiator fan stays running.........
 

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There seems to be a lot going on but I see 1 thing that's common to my 03 93 se.My car would not crank at all at times.Other times it would crank but not start.It ended up being caused by a bad abs/tc module and a failing throttle position sensor which kept the tc light on and had the car running horribly.In the process is spoke to a saab mechanic who had 30 years of Saab only experience and now has a saab shop.He told me he once had a saab that wouldn't start because it was missing input from a single speed sensor.It seems you have more going on but if you get past key not recognized and still have a no start condition it may be abs module or speed sensor related.Also I had a short to ground code on the Abs which was the short in the module itself. It's so difficult when you have a few different things causing a problem to pinpoint the root cause but if you get past key not recognized and still have a no start issue it's something to consider.I hope you catch a break soon.Good luck RonR
 

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Discussion Starter #30
There seems to be a lot going on but I see 1 thing that's common to my 03 93 se.My car would not crank at all at times.Other times it would crank but not start.It ended up being caused by a bad abs/tc module and a failing throttle position sensor which kept the tc light on and had the car running horribly.In the process is spoke to a saab mechanic who had 30 years of Saab only experience and now has a saab shop.He told me he once had a saab that wouldn't start because it was missing input from a single speed sensor.It seems you have more going on but if you get past key not recognized and still have a no start condition it may be abs module or speed sensor related.Also I had a short to ground code on the Abs which was the short in the module itself. It's so difficult when you have a few different things causing a problem to pinpoint the root cause but if you get past key not recognized and still have a no start issue it's something to consider.I hope you catch a break soon.Good luck RonR
Ugh! Yeah, I considered the fact that any little blip could be the root cause.
Honestly, this has been such a mess.
Someone mentioned that it sounded like a flood car.
I know it's not but, man, it sure sounds like it!

I started looking at TWICE units and then I though "I can probably buy a complete working parts car and save myself a lot of headache"
Got a couple lined up already.
It's either that or just scrap it. Both seem equally viable at this point as I am just so frustrated over it and not sure it's worth much more fiddling. :/
 

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I can definitely understand that because these cars can get very frustrating especially with all the electrical issues they have as they get older. What part of the country are you from. Just wondering if you are in my neck of the woods I'm from Connecticut.
 

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I just saw your from North Carolina .Definitly in my neck of the woods but not close enough to offer parts and physical help.Ive read through all the issues and one thing I've learned with these cars is that when there are a bunch of problems that dont make sense but you're sure that there's not that many things going wrong you have to look at what's capable of causing all those different problems. I think you're on the right track with the ignition I haven't dealt with the ignition yet but I do understand that it's tied into a lot. I have dealt with all the other systems in the car and I'm not aware of any of those systems that could cause the multitude of problems that you have right now. My only fear for you is that it is not the ignition itself that is bad but the wiring harness going to the ignition somewhere between the ECU and the ignition. If you replace the ignition and try to program it and the car will not accept it if I was you I would try to get an oscilloscope hook it up to the wiring harness and shake that harness see if you've got a glitch in there somewhere. I'm dealing with a similar issue with my transmission in my 2001 93 SE convertible. I swapped out a transmission and the new transmission is doing the same thing is the old transmission. It's not shifting properly. From what I can tell it's mechanical and I'm going to swap it out again. But if I swap it again and the problem persists I'll know I'm wrong and I'll be in the same position you are which is I have to figure out why the wiring harness is not letting the information pass correctly to the TCM. Hang in there don't let it get you down you'll be on the top of the world when you solve it and you will solve it if you stick with it I hope when you switch out the ignition that solves your problem right there and you don't have to go any further. Good luck .
 

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I just saw your from North Carolina .Definitly in my neck of the woods but not close enough to offer parts and physical help.Ive read through all the issues and one thing I've learned with these cars is that when there are a bunch of problems that dont make sense but you're sure that there's not that many things going wrong you have to look at what's capable of causing all those different problems. I think you're on the right track with the ignition I haven't dealt with the ignition yet but I do understand that it's tied into a lot. I have dealt with all the other systems in the car and I'm not aware of any of those systems that could cause the multitude of problems that you have right now. My only fear for you is that it is not the ignition itself that is bad but the wiring harness going to the ignition somewhere between the ECU and the ignition. If you replace the ignition and try to program it and the car will not accept it if I was you I would try to get an oscilloscope hook it up to the wiring harness and shake that harness see if you've got a glitch in there somewhere. I'm dealing with a similar issue with my transmission in my 2001 93 SE convertible. I swapped out a transmission and the new transmission is doing the same thing is the old transmission. It's not shifting properly. From what I can tell it's mechanical and I'm going to swap it out again. But if I swap it again and the problem persists I'll know I'm wrong and I'll be in the same position you are which is I have to figure out why the wiring harness is not letting the information pass correctly to the TCM. Hang in there don't let it get you down you'll be on the top of the world when you solve it and you will solve it if you stick with it I hope when you switch out the ignition that solves your problem right there and you don't have to go any further. Good luck .
Sorry to jack the tread but please check tcu jack. Remove TCU and check if the double pins on the jack are tight. I change my aut tranny, samo problems. Tighten the tcu jack pins with a needle and no more errors

Regarding no start issue, have a simmilar problem, dashboard dies on start or possition 2 and shuts down the car. On the hunt for culprit. Also maybe check the main jack on the firewall. Open it up, check that the pins double pins (do they call them female?? ) are nice and snug

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

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I just remembered that if you unplug the speedometer cluster in these cars they won't start as they need the info to perform correctly it just occurred to me that it's possible a fault in the cluster could cause a no start as well.something to consider.thanks for the tcm info I had previously checked the pins with a multimeter and none were loose unless by double pins you mean something else.thanks for the heads up though.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I just saw your from North Carolina .Definitly in my neck of the woods but not close enough to offer parts and physical help.Ive read through all the issues and one thing I've learned with these cars is that when there are a bunch of problems that dont make sense but you're sure that there's not that many things going wrong you have to look at what's capable of causing all those different problems. I think you're on the right track with the ignition I haven't dealt with the ignition yet but I do understand that it's tied into a lot. I have dealt with all the other systems in the car and I'm not aware of any of those systems that could cause the multitude of problems that you have right now. My only fear for you is that it is not the ignition itself that is bad but the wiring harness going to the ignition somewhere between the ECU and the ignition. If you replace the ignition and try to program it and the car will not accept it if I was you I would try to get an oscilloscope hook it up to the wiring harness and shake that harness see if you've got a glitch in there somewhere. I'm dealing with a similar issue with my transmission in my 2001 93 SE convertible. I swapped out a transmission and the new transmission is doing the same thing is the old transmission. It's not shifting properly. From what I can tell it's mechanical and I'm going to swap it out again. But if I swap it again and the problem persists I'll know I'm wrong and I'll be in the same position you are which is I have to figure out why the wiring harness is not letting the information pass correctly to the TCM. Hang in there don't let it get you down you'll be on the top of the world when you solve it and you will solve it if you stick with it I hope when you switch out the ignition that solves your problem right there and you don't have to go any further. Good luck .
I figured I could determine what was going on with the transmission, if it was just running again.... Now getting the "key not recognized", I decided to replace the antenna ring.
Just now got back to it because I've been dealing with a terrible accident situation with family.
So far replacing the antenna ring as not solved anything and I am still at a no start situation.
Judging by the dash indicator LED, the immobilizer is active so I'll need to try and reset that and go from there. :/.

Sorry to jack the tread but please check tcu jack. Remove TCU and check if the double pins on the jack are tight. I change my aut tranny, samo problems. Tighten the tcu jack pins with a needle and no more errors

Regarding no start issue, have a simmilar problem, dashboard dies on start or possition 2 and shuts down the car. On the hunt for culprit. Also maybe check the main jack on the firewall. Open it up, check that the pins double pins (do they call them female?? ) are nice and snug

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
TCU is new (replaced). I'll check it again if I ever get this running, again.

I just remembered that if you unplug the speedometer cluster in these cars they won't start as they need the info to perform correctly it just occurred to me that it's possible a fault in the cluster could cause a no start as well.something to consider.thanks for the tcm info I had previously checked the pins with a multimeter and none were loose unless by double pins you mean something else.thanks for the heads up though.
All that comes up on the T2. Well it did, last time I messed with it.
Just got a new transponder antenna and so far still getting the "Key not recognized" so, starting from scratch again tomorrow, I suppose.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I DO have the ignition switch that I purchased a while back but didn't install. I may consider putting that in but I don't see how that is going to have any bearing on this "Key not recognized" issue
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Everyone,.... I just got ignition.....
Of course, the car is slap out of gas because I was stopping for gas when this first started.
So, I'm going to get some gas @ 00:43 because there's no damn way I'm waiting until morning! Haha
I'll update further
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Well, apparently I've remedied the key not accepted issue but, there's more issues now then I remember there being before, just a couple months ago.
It's running, though, so that's something. At least I can move it around under its own power.
I'm still showing the TCM as not available.
I tried replacing it with another TCM and it still shows not available so, I don't know if maybe I've got a harness short, if I determine that is the problem, I'm probably not going to go any further and just scrap it, literally, I'm so frustrated with this thing.

I'm wondering, does the TCM actually have to be mounted in order to ground or something?
currently I just have it connected with the two plugs on either side but it's not mounted in position.

Currently, this is what I'm getting on T2 (I was also getting an immobilizer code that cleared itself. I think the battery was low?
I did notice that this morning the indicator on the dash was flashing twice and not once so I’m assuming the immobilizer has been triggered, again….)

DTC
DICE - B2480 WIPER SWITCH (I guess that's good, though? I seem to remember reading somewhere that if the wipers were acting funny it was either the switch or the DICE unit?)
ACC - B2375 Heat Exchanger Solenoid Open/Short to Ground (not really worried about this one at the moment)
T7 - P1300 random misfire (could be a vacuum leak, going to smoke test here shortly)
MIU - B1705 Speed Signal Missing. See fault tracing TC/ABS 5.3
UNKNOWN DTC (I'm assuming this is a wheel speed sensor)
SID - B1361 SID button. Malfunction (this is probably because my night mode button is stuck “in”. I've tried spraying it with electronics cleaner and it hasn't released so I guess I'm probably going to have to take it out to fix it. This code wasn't present before because I hadn't pushed the button and I think it's just sticky from not being used for years)
TCM – Missing
ESP – Missing (I seem to remember reading somewhere that this goes along with the ABS issue, and is likely the ABS module?)
ABS 5.4 - Missing
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I also just noticed that I posted about the same problem, same car, it's been almost 3 years.........
I've driven it a total of maybe 25 miles, back in June, that entire time.....
 
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