SaabCentral Forums banner

21 - 39 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
Don't know if it does you any good but I have a spare head from an 02 Aero I have no plans for, you can have it for the cost of shipping. It's cleaned up, shop said it's flat, valves are good as far as I know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
thanks but I don't need any more extra stuff laying around.

I was just hoping to get my extra head checked and cleaned up so that when i pulled the engine out I could put it back together without waiting for a shop.

It's a good thing I have a couple of extra cars, although the 67 Volvo isn't going to go out any time when there is even a hint of rain!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
so I had a bit of time today. yesterday I went to the power wash place and really cleaned the back of the engine good. Even took my floor jack and took the two front wheels off to get everything cleaned out Then this morning put the car up on jack stands and took the upper left motor mount wishbone off so I could see.

What is happening is that under the tensioner, on top of the timing cover and in front of the block I'm getting a small pool of oil that eventually fills up that little "reservoir" and spills over onto the front of the timing cover then runs down the engine just in front of the belt tensioner and to the pan. While Driving it blows all over the place. This is not a small leak

here's a video of the engine running and the oil coming out


And a photo that show the "puddle"



since I did the head gasket I can only think of two reasons this would leak here:

  • The head was not flat and doing the gasket didn't help me at all. I did put the anerobic sealant on the deck across the joint between the timing cover and the block under the head gasket
  • the timing cover to block joint itself is leaking there. as you can see in the photo the timing cover is "shorter" than the block so the block sticks up just where the oil is pooling. IF the timing cover joint has failed enough splashing around will push oil "up" through that joint.
Whatever it is, the reality is that the timing cover is going to have to come off, the head checked for flatness and the whole thing done again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Well, the engine is out (not without issues and stupidity) and it's leaking just where I thought it was. Don't have the head off yet but it's pretty clear that the oil was coming from the timing cover/head/block interface. See here, you can definitely see signs of oil on the back of the block just behind the timing cover

268988



Now on to taking the head off, getting it checked for flatness and ordering up the parts to put this thing back together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
By the way, if you're taking the engine out remember to disconnect the oil cooler supply and return lines from the engine before you yank it. I destroyed mine. If you're one of the people parting out a 9-5 in the parts forum check your discussions since I messaged you asking if you have the cooler lines.

argh!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
Was there a TSB about oil leaks in this area? I recall something about one, searched and couldn't find it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
so I had a bit of time today. yesterday I went to the power wash place and really cleaned the back of the engine good. Even took my floor jack and took the two front wheels off to get everything cleaned out Then this morning put the car up on jack stands and took the upper left motor mount wishbone off so I could see.

What is happening is that under the tensioner, on top of the timing cover and in front of the block I'm getting a small pool of oil that eventually fills up that little "reservoir" and spills over onto the front of the timing cover then runs down the engine just in front of the belt tensioner and to the pan. While Driving it blows all over the place. This is not a small leak

here's a video of the engine running and the oil coming out


And a photo that show the "puddle"



since I did the head gasket I can only think of two reasons this would leak here:

  • The head was not flat and doing the gasket didn't help me at all. I did put the anerobic sealant on the deck across the joint between the timing cover and the block under the head gasket
  • the timing cover to block joint itself is leaking there. as you can see in the photo the timing cover is "shorter" than the block so the block sticks up just where the oil is pooling. IF the timing cover joint has failed enough splashing around will push oil "up" through that joint.
Whatever it is, the reality is that the timing cover is going to have to come off, the head checked for flatness and the whole thing done again.
Interesting and grateful.

Yesterday my 03 144k black 95 wagon jumped the serpentine belt just off the hiway.
I pulled over into the parking lot and took a deep breath.
The very black and nasty oily slippery serpentine belt was in one piece with a notch out on the edge, but wtf.
A guy pulled up behind me a few minutes later and offered me and my partner a ride. Turned out he had been sponsored as a kid in autocross and made a career of it. Ray somebody.
We chatted and I showed him around my sorta reclaimed offgrid rainforest pali 3 acres lot here in Puna. After some oregon weed and praying I had all the tools I needed, he then took me back to the parking lot, did his shopping, and 10 minutes later checked in with me and left.
By that time I had the car jacked, wheel off and yoke removed. Then the slippery serpentine fun began threading in a old but dry belt that I had spare.
The steering pump pulley grooves were filling up with black rubber and there was a small stone about 1/16 dia wedged in one of the groves. It's was a power wash job before I go in there again!

I knew I had a leak there, I had bought, months ago, the new tensioner seal and washer. But my car fix time was consumed by issues changing the auto tranny on my $400 08 72k red wagon and I had forgotten. Done, new tranny is perfect,

but the national rear seal leaks and I have to recheck the compression on #1 it was 125 lbs vs 160 for the others..

Any of these a better rear seal solution? https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/saab,2008,9-5,2.3l+l4+turbocharged,1441699,engine,crankshaft+seal,5604

SIDE NOTE:
Also I had neglected to change the hot water controller on my black wagon that blew out at 11,000 feet up Mauna Loa scouting to hike to the top at 13,674' (which I've now hiked a few times)
Fun driving down to around 6k' in 10 miles with no power brakes or steering on a single lane road. I borrowed a screwdriver from the Hawaiian protectors encampment provisions tent (they're organized) right there at saddle road junction up to Mauna Kea. They only had one screwdriver but with a long tip and exactly what I needed because they were crocodile clamps - and by chance I had the heater controller in the car. Well it took a couple of hours in the strong winds and my partner gripping onto the bonet as I learned how to dive deep to switch out the controller at the back of the engine.

Like I said, grateful, and to you unclemiltie for all the suggestions you've shared with me personally and on this forum. TY

- So' that's were I need to check too after I get out the power washer. Great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
yea, this oil leak killed two serpentine belts over the past few months. I took to getting the hose out every night when I got home and hosed it down from the top and bottom to keep this one from getting killed.

What you need to do the job: 1/2 breaker bar to do the tensioner,3mm allen wrench to pin the tensioner. 16mm for the wishbone bolts, 18mm for the motor mount bolt, 10mm for the power steering hose mount on the wishbone and a torx or small socket for all of the screws on the serpentine belt cover. And a jack to hold the engine up while you take the wishbone off.

I can do that job now in about 20 minutes, 15 minutes if the belt cover isn't on the car.

@Josdek - I don't know if there was a TSB on this but that spot is notorious for an oil leak. I had hoped doing the head gasket would solve the problem but alas now the engine had to come out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
An update: engine out and torn down and I think I've found the culprit.

Machine shop confirms that head is flat so that's not the issue. However it's clear that the timing chain has been changed on this car as it has the yellow links on it that are not on the original but are on the chain in the replacement kit. So the timing cover has been off at some point. (and it's probably not an 86K motor as was advertised on ebay) the cylinders look good, cross hatch is all still there so I'm not going to touch that part of the engine.

yesterday I took the timing cover off and found that there were plenty of spots where it was leaking. This includes at the top where I had the leak, there looked like there was no sealant there at all. I'm really hoping that this was the issue and will put it back together in the next few days. (with another new head gasket and bolts, new VCG, intake and exhaust gasket, turbo gasket, water pump and a few hoses that are hard to change when the engine is in the car)

as an aside after scraping and cleaning all of the timing cover surfaces to get ready for putting it back together I can't possibly imagine doing this job with the engine in the car and getting it to seal. Any little bit of dirt left on the surface or any smudged and missed spot will be a killer. And with the dowels in the block I can't imagine getting the top surface to seal against the head gasket while the heads on the engine. (does the WIS procedure to do the timing chains in the car require you to take the head off?). I suspect that the chain was changed with the engine in the car and they didn't seal it right.

And while I'm at it I'm going to finally install the eeuroparts Stage 1 ECU that I bought months ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
final? (I hope) update! engine back in the car and running and NO OIL LEAK!

I was judicious in the use of the anaerobic sealant on the timing cover, oil pan and under the head gasket near the 3-way joint and it's dry where it was leaking before.

I did, however, damage the throttle body and broke the solenoid for the limp home on the way in. Got lazy since I did this once a few years ago and thought "nah, I can be careful" Word to the wise, don't leave the throttle body on the manifold when you put the engine back in. you've been warned!

It's running little "lumpy" and surges and sputters every now and then, almost like the throttle body is bad. But on a drive runs great. I had to buy another whole throttle body so that'll tell me if the TB was bad and I just didn't notice it in the past.

so all sealed up, new head gasket, new valve cover gasket, new intake and exhaust gaskets, new water pump and all of the copper sealant rings on the turbo. New front main seal and o-ring (trivial to remove with the engine on a stand!) and running again.

Question: Does it matter which "port" on the two-port vacuum connector on the manifold is connected to the FPR and to the turbo boost bypass/heater control valve is used? I couldn't remember what hose went where and may have swapped them but I don't think that there is any difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,597 Posts
Congrats on the job. My 06's leaked for years in that same location. I had my garage repair if for me when the rear main starting leaking. They actually told me it looked like the timing chain cover came from the factory with no sealant on it.

The hose on the FPR does not matter from what I recall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
Congrats on the job. My 06's leaked for years in that same location. I had my garage repair if for me when the rear main starting leaking. They actually told me it looked like the timing chain cover came from the factory with no sealant on it.

The hose on the FPR does not matter from what I recall.
Thanks, was a lot of work, now the third time the engine in this car was out. The junkyard that sold me the engine power washed it before they shipped, otherwise I would have likely seen how bad it was (see the earlier photo)

Happy that it's not dripping in my driveway!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,597 Posts
Thanks, was a lot of work, now the third time the engine in this car was out. The junkyard that sold me the engine power washed it before they shipped, otherwise I would have likely seen how bad it was (see the earlier photo)

Happy that it's not dripping in my driveway!
I hate a car that drips. My turbo inlet pipe is dripping now. I need to work on it after I get my kids 65' done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
5 days of driving and still no oil on the driveway! nothing on the timing cover and nothing on the oil pan. I think I'm done with this problem! new (used) throttle body arrived today, I got some cleaner and will clean it up and put it in tomorrow that will get rid of the limp-home solenoid issue.

Subframe bushings and engine-out oil repair in one month. Now if I can only figure out the clunk in the front end!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,597 Posts
5 days of driving and still no oil on the driveway! nothing on the timing cover and nothing on the oil pan. I think I'm done with this problem! new (used) throttle body arrived today, I got some cleaner and will clean it up and put it in tomorrow that will get rid of the limp-home solenoid issue.

Subframe bushings and engine-out oil repair in one month. Now if I can only figure out the clunk in the front end!
Did I mention to you to check the airbox hanger to make sure it is in place? If it is not connected it will knock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
It's still good, both mounts are tight and still connected to the air box. (in fact I had to undo them to replace the oil cooler hoses that I destroyed during teh engine pull)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
See, it wasn't your work you had done on the head. It was leaking at the block under that area. I do recall that we know to take the engine out to do the timing cover. Why do we ignore our own advice?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,445 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
See, it wasn't your work you had done on the head. It was leaking at the block under that area. I do recall that we know to take the engine out to do the timing cover. Why do we ignore our own advice?
Oh, I get it. I was hoping that it was the head gasket and it was leaking on the "top" of the block/timing cover. Hoping, wishing, etc. But that was not the problem.

I've never done the timing cover with the engine in the car (I've done 4 now) and can't possibly imagine how to do it and get the thing to seal. But the WIS does say that you can do it that way and I know people on this forum have done it as well.
 
21 - 39 of 39 Posts
Top