SaabCentral Forums banner

1 - 20 of 139 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Back in 2009 my beautiful, 60,000-mile '90 SPG was destroyed by a guy who didn't know how to drive. I was pretty sure I was going to wrap up my involvement with c900s, but about a year later I found an '85 "SPG" that was not running, but had been well loved and was in pretty good shape. SPG is in quotes because I don't think it was an SPG - it has SPG panels on it, but all sorts of other stuff leads me to believe it was a modified 900T. DOESN'T MATTER.

When I got the car, it had a big ol' turbo (I think a T3/T4 hybrid), Brad's (KC Saabs) adjustable springs, Bilsteins, some nice light Rota Grids, Jak Stoll's FMIC, and a 2.1l head. Definitely a nice starting place.

But, it had a bum clutch, a janky exhaust, typical '85 wiring issues, and either a bad engine harness repair or a bad engine harness tuck. Still not sure. :D

I installed a 9000 clutch, swapped the axles/brakes over to the '88+ style using parts from my '90 SPG, 9000 front calipers, a set of 17x7 somewhat light (20lbs) wheels with sticky tires, adjustable rear trailing links & panhard rod, added the matching 2.1l intake manifold, swapped it over to LH 2.4, and... something else I'm forgetting.



Six years have passed, and though it only sees about 2,000 miles a year it's still aging. Although mechanically sound, it's definitely starting to show its age. Not sure exactly what I'm going to do about that, but I'm starting with a T5 conversion until I figure it out.

I've already spoken with the local smog referee and outlined my plans - I'm going to do an "engine swap" from a 1994 NG900 - "engine swap" is the technical term here, it's just T5 on a B202 and some winks. It'll be fine. :) 1994 is the donor year since it's pre-OBDII which gives a lot of leeway for installation - I don't have to worry about using the c900 intake manifold, I can keep the FMIC, I can keep the K&N filter (not a word!), and I can keep the single O2 sensor & stock cat location. Going '96+, OBDII, means none of that is possible. 1994 was also a crossover year, with the c900 convertible still in production so keeping the c900 exhaust manifold (vs a NG900 one) will be fine - both 2.0l 16vT cars sold in the same year by the same brand and both, sort of, the same model. All good.

A couple weeks ago I bought a '99 9-3 to use as parts. It was a really good deal, but as it turns out Charlotte - that's her name - is a pretty nice car. The problem the owner was fighting with appears to have been a bunch of shot vacuum hoses... so after $25 to autohausaz Charlotte runs great and flew through smog... Not sure I'm going to dismantle her now. She deserves better.



Pick & Pull is doing their half off sale, which IME is unusual - I don't recall them doing such a sale randomly in spring, but since I'm having second thoughts about parting out Charlotte I took advantage. I snagged a direct ignition cassette, a pair of MAP sensors, and a pair of Trionic 5 ECMs to play with. Unfortunately, I forgot to grab the boost control solenoids, and talked myself out of a set of injectors but am now wishing I'd grabbed some. Maybe this weekend.

I'm going to pick up the eeuroparts flywheel kit and probably laze out and get their wiring harness as well. It's a good price and it'll save me a bunch of time. Since the '85 is already LH 2.4 I think I have everything in place for a quick swap.

To make matters more complex (what's the fun in easy?) I am also going to try and build out a custom gauge cluster. The LH 2.4 speedo I'm using has a broken odometer and is the wrong mileage. I could probably fix it, but meh... Let's go for broke(n). I ordered a replacement speedo and tach from Speedhut:



Obviously T5 will be programmed for a 7k redline. ;)

The gauges go black at night... should be rad.



To make this happen, I'm going to use the speed sensor from a Saab 9000 - I believe it outputs 4x the pulse rate that Trionic (and LH) expects, so I'll use a Dakota Digital speedometer signal converter to fix that.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=126/prd126.htm

I don't yet know how I'm going to address temp and fuel gauges - boost is already handled with an Autometer gauge, so not a challenge. To give myself flexibility in this I swapped fuel tanks to a '90+ type a few months ago and installed a fuel pump "module" from a 9-5 with integrated level sender... the old-style c900 senders are hard to find and used ones are unreliable, so I'd like a better long term solution. Oh, I swapped the 9-5 pump insert with a Walbro 255lph pump...



That was a hassle, but I should have PLENTY of fuel to decimate the transmission if I decide I want to. :) Which I do not. I'm aiming for a reliable, drivable 220-240hp and a fun road car. I'll leave the transmission destruction up to the XR4Ti, where I can get $40 T5s and swap them in an afternoon. ;)

So, aside from parts collecting my next step is to verify the 9000 VSS and Dakota adapter does what it's supposed to. Hopefully this weekend I'm going to hook up an oscilloscope to the current/factory speedo and collect some data so I can be sure I get the same signal out of the Dakota adapter. I don't know what I'm doing with an oscilloscope, but how hard can it be? :D

Then, I suppose I need to place an eeuroparts order. :)

Edit: Whoops, forgot: The SeudoPG came with no power steering. There's a power rack and a pump, but no belt and no fluid. It's not any sort of problem above 5mph - the aftermarket wheels reduced the scrub radius sufficiently that steering effort is totally fine. But, I'm casually working on an EHPS install. The obvious answer is a SW20/SW30 MR2 swap, but I hate buying obsolete parts if there's an alternative. The modern TRW pump (used in a lot of cars, like Volvo) seems the obvious answer, but it's controlled with PWM through CAN speed signals. I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'm hoping I might be able to get T5 to do that somehow. Gonna need someone who knows a lot more about T5 and CAN than I do to make that happen, so for the time being I'm staying without power assist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
There is a LOT of information about these swaps out there, but here's one:

http://www.rx7club.com/fabrication-250/write-up-mr2-electrical-power-steering-conversion-847818/

or

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-install-an-mr2-power-steering-pump.415129/

It's about as brain-dead as it comes - a bracket to secure the pump, some hoses, and 12v. They do have support for a speed signal to reduce power consumption/assist at higher speeds, but it's not necessary.

The SW30 ("MR-S") pump works similarly and is pretty well documented as well, eg:

http://forums.nicoclub.com/electo-hydraulic-power-steering-ehps-conversion-on-s14-t568877.html

I don't know, but I think you can use the same speed signal as LH/Trionic to run these - these are very close to 4000ppm, which is a very common speed signal. Exact speed doesn't matter so much, it's just not moving/high assist moving/low assist... and, really, it's not like calibrations for a small MR car are going to be appropriate for a relatively heavy FF car anyway. ;)

The common pump these days is made by TRW and it's everywhere. It doesn't use a traditional VSS to vary its assist, it needs CAN messages... but it's new and readily available. I hate the idea of relying on pumps for cars that have been out of production for a decade or two. :(

Bear in mind these pumps can suck up to 70a or so, so you wouldn't be able to run then with a stock c900 alternator. A 115a alternator from a '92 9000 bolts right in with a pulley swap. I think the 120a version from a '98 9000 will also, but I don't have one to try. I'd really like to figure out a way to use a GM Si or Ford 3G alternator - they are cheap and common. It's a lot of work... for $150 I'd probably just use the 9000's Bosch and bolt it in. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Interesting, thanks. My immediate concern would be one of steering geometry, but a few measurements would clear that up.
I'm not following... I'm not changing a rack, just changing where the power assist comes from (belt driven pump to electrical pump). Nothing changes about steering geometry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Ah, and clearly I'm not following either. I thought the purpose was to avoid rebuilding your rack.
Ah! LOL! :)

I'm assuming the rack does need rebuilding, which is the primary reason I'm not driven to pursue this. If I am going to replace the rack, I feel like I should also pull out the engine and shore up some of the stuff you can't otherwise get at. ;)

The point - for me - in moving to an EHPS setup is I guess the same as big manufacturers... robbing the engine of less precious HP. Secondarily, I find the power steering in the c900 (and, really, all Saabs) to be horribly overboosted and I don't care for it. My friend solved the overboosting easily by adjusting the relief valve in the pump, but why make things easy? :)

I've been trying to catch up on the state of T5 tuning and I increasingly think there is a way to get CANBUS road speed messages out of Trionic and into a TRW pump. There's not a good/easy way on a c900 to also get steering angle and yaw rate to the pump, but at least having the pump be somewhat proactive instead of reactive would be nice. :) The longer I wait the easier this becomes, and I'm not suffering in the meantime so it's definitely a back-burner project. ;)

Edit: If I was going to avoid rebuilding the rack, I would probably aim for one of the GM EPS setups that are getting hacked... just put an electric motor right on the steering column and get rid of hydraulic fluid entirely. I just don't think there is enough room in the c900 dash area to do this or I'd probably try! Buuuuut... if I wait long enough those cars will start showing up in the Pick & Pull and I can get a R&D unit for cheap. ;) Right now, they're too expensive on the conventional used auto parts market to experiment with (for me).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Electric power steering sucks. I don't know if you've driven a car with it and how you feel, but personally I hate it. Then again it was on my old Focus ST and it had so many other electronic geejaws interfering with the driving experience I can't blame the steering alone. It was horribly numb and uncommunicative, though. I haven't driven EHPS so no comment.

My rack leaks like a sieve so I'll probably pull the guts out of it and PROPERLY de-power it before deciding if I want to rebuild my spare rack and install it.

Now: back to your T5 install thread. Sorry for the jack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Not all EPS is bad - but not all of it good, just like engine-driven hydraulics. And EPS is very tunable, so as the software for it gets better, it will start to feel better in general. EHPS should feel exactly like engine-driven hydraulics, with the exception that there is no direct correlation between engine speed and assist (but it can be managed in software), and that EHPS will often be prone to input lag sooner than engine-driven hydraulics are. The nice thing (at least for me) with EHPS is that I can (hopefully) not have to dislocate a shoulder while parking, but go back to the zero power assist at speed that I have come to love. Although the car is a handful in parking lots (215/45-17 Star Specs ;) ) the feedback in motion is really nice. If I was a better driver the bumps & tugs of unassisted steering would probably get in my way, but as-is they help me feel the car in a way I'm not otherwise sensitive to. :)

I have spent the last 24 hours or so trying to educate myself on T5. I should have spent the last year! I'm so far the behind the curve I'm having trouble digesting some of the ultra-frank technical conversations. I need a remedial class! :D Fortunately I don't have any extensive short term goals, and am crossing my fingers the car will run reasonably well on a stock FPT tune or t5suite "easy tune." If I can get there, I'll be satisfied for 2017. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Spent way too much time over the weekend playing with speedometers. I have been burned by assumptions on projects in the past and I just don't have the interest in spinning my wheels this time around. I'm trying to be a little OCD and be sure I understand all the pieces and that they're all behaving.

Saturday I plugged in my Speedhut speedometer to the speed sensor on the back of the SPG's cluster, driving it with the same signal LH and Trionic would be using, plus capturing some of that signal data with an oscilloscope.



Sunday, I learned a bunch of stuff about my workshop - things like my drill press only has a forward speed and the AC in the walls messes with the oscilloscope! LOL My workbench is too small anyway, so I took everything outside.

First step was running a c900 speedometer via cable at a known speed, and verifying the Speedhut speedometer behaved as expected based on the calibration from Saturday.



Then, running a 9000 speed sensor at that same speed, plugging in the Dakota SGI-5e adapter, and making sure it ran the Speedhut speedo similarly.



You will notice my "65mph bracket" operating the DeWalt. I'm totally pro.

Feeling good about this. I ordered some TE "Faston" contacts from newark.com last night so I can plug this stuff into the existing factory connectors - I think that stuff arrives tomorrow.

I'm going to work on a temporary gauge solution - basically use all the stock gauges except the speedometer. I'm not sure I have the time or money to fully redo that stuff now and I'm not going to hold up progress so I can have a matching tachometer. It'll be fine.

Next week I will order the flywheel from eeuro and a wideband O2 sensor - probably from 14point7.com since I can use t5suite and a combi adapter to watch the output. Don't need a gauge right now anyway! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Last night I modified the housing for a factory speedo into an adapter for the Speedhut one. A hacksaw and some sandpaper and a... fair... amount of time and I have a package that will just drop into the existing cluster.

Made a new wiring harness for a Saab 9000 speed sensor and made an adapter to plug the Speedhut speedo and Dakota Digital converter right into the factory harness (thank you Newark.com!). I think it's good to go.





Hopefully I'll be able to get this installed over the weekend and check something off the to-do list. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thought I would take a second to comment on the Dakota converter. The instructions that come with it are different than the instructions posted online, and neither of them make much sense. I think Dakota tried too hard to describe how to use the thing rather than how it works, so the result is that if you don't have one of their specific applications it's tough to figure out what you should do.

Here is what it looks like for reference:



It serves two purposes - it can turn sine inputs into square outputs and vice versa, and it can multiply or divide the incoming signal. You can do either or both. That's super straightforward. But, it has five outputs and a configurable multiplier/divider, and that's where things became complex for me because the instructions never tell you this, this just provide examples of how it could work.

Here's how you get through it:

1. You need to choose the type of signal in and the type of signal out - "high" signals are >32,000ppm and "low" signals are <32,000ppm. (It's unclear what a 32,000ppm signal would be!)
2. Set your signal - High to High, Low to High, etc.

What you choose in #2 defines the default mode of the unit - it's smart enough to know that if want a high signal to a low signal, it needs to divide or if it's a low signal to high it needs to multiply. If they're both the same (low to low, high to high) it divides.

3. Set your calibration if necessary: There is a custom multiplier/divider, which can be set (I believe) to 1, 2, 3, or 4 or anything between .250 and 1.00.

The outputs function as:

Outputs 1 and 3 are always sine
Outputs 2, 4, and 5 are always square

High in - High out -

OUT 1 & 2 are the same as the input multiplied by the calibration value.
OUT 3 & 4 are 1/2 of the input.
OUT 5 is 1/4 of the input

High in - Low out -

OUT 1 & 2 are the same as the input multiplied by the calibration value.
OUT 3 is 1/16 of the input.
OUT 4 is 1/32nd of the input.
OUT 5 is 1/64th of the input.

Low in - High out -

OUT 1 & 2 are the same as the input multiplied by the calibration value.
OUT 3 & 4 are x16 of the input.
A 8K generator can now be altered to a 128K signal
OUT 5 is x8 of the input

Low in - Low out -

OUT 1 & 2 are the same as the input multiplied by the calibration value.
OUT 3 & 4 are 1/2 of the input.
OUT 5 is 1/4 of the input

For my scenario, it's Low to Low, because I'm changing a Saab 9000 speed sensor's 16000ppm signal into an LH/T5/cruise control 4000ppm signal.

I'm also going sine to square, so I'll be using Outputs 2 or 4 or 5

I need to change 16000ppm to 4000ppm, so I can either use Output 5 (because in low to low mode Output 5 is 1/4 input) OR I can set the calibration value to .250 and use Output 2 (because Output 2 is always Output 1 * calibration).

As you can see in the picture above, I choose to set the Calibration as .250 and use Output 2.

What's neat about this device is how flexible it is with inputs - it can use the sine output of the 9000's VSS, it could use the NG900's ABS sensor, or even the Hall sensor on a c900 2.1l. It can turn any of those into a usable speed signal.

I'll also surrender this detail: The Speedhut speedometer I'm using can take in a sine or square wave of pretty much any frequency and use it for a speed signal. It *also* produces a 4000ppm output. I don't need the Dakota box *at all*. That output was not one of the features advertised about the speedometer, so I didn't know it until it showed up. I decided to go ahead and use the Dakota box anyway for a few reasons... but, if you were to do this, you don't need the Dakota box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I ran into an odd problem which accurately highlights my limited electrical knowledge. The 9000 VSS works great to drive the Dakota converter as well as the Speedhut speedo, but has a side effect that I just don't know how to cure: When the VSS stops moving, it still outputs a small signal which neither the converter nor the speedo know what to do with, so they end up just hanging in limbo for a bit:


Once the signal dissipates, the needle drops to zero, but during that time...? I guess the stock 9000 speedometer must have some sort of filter to deal with this, but I have no idea electrically how to replicate that, soo....

I picked up an Autometer 5291, which works in the c900 transmission, outputs a signal the T5 ECM understands, and will drive the speedo, so that's what I'm rolling with now. Just gotta make a little wire harness to connect everything up, hopefully this week.

In the interim, FedEx delivered a package containing sweet, sweet modified flywheel from Eeuroparts:





Some interesting data:

1. Stock '90+ c900 flywheel is 19.6lbs
2. The Eeuroparts flywheel is 16.4lbs
3. My '91+ 9000T lightened flywheel is 13.2lbs
4. My -'89 c900 lightened flywheel is 13.7lbs

So, the Eeuroparts flywheel is definitely not the lightest, but it's still a good weight savings over stock. I am sure my other lightened flywheels have an advantage because they don't need a 60-2 pattern in back, but I suspect there is more room on that Eeuro part if someone was really committed. ;)

During my install, I found one of the clutch slave cylinder bolt holes was stripped. :( Annoying, but comes as no surprise - when I got this '85 SPG it was leaking from the oil drain plug. I found the old plug was covered in RTV, PO tried to stop it leaking. Problem turned out to be radial cracks around the drain plug, clearly from dramatic over-tightening. I guess the same thing happened on the clutch slave.

I did some research on thread repair - I've never had a problem with Helicoils, but mechanically I've always liked Timeserts better. I guess maybe I should, as they're typically many times more expensive. ;) In this case, though, the selling point of the Timesert was the drill - the Helicoil repair for an M6 uses a 1/4" drill bit, and the Timesert uses a D, which is a tiny bit smaller. Smaller = less metal, so the Timesert got the nod. The kit is bloody $60, versus $15 for the Helicoil which sucked, but it did include a machine length (aka "stubby") drill bit which combined with cheap Harbor Freight right angle pneumatic drill fit - barely - between the engine and transmission:



It was TIGHT, but it worked and the Timesert was adequately flush with the face on the transmission:



Ideally I would have liked to sink the head lower, but that was it for the counterbore. It works fine - the ears on the slave aren't seated against the transmission anyway. Glad that's done!

I got the new flywheel & clutch installed:



It looks so nice in there! The big mark on the flywheel is what I think is TDC - they milled all that info off the flywheel because Trionic doesn't need it, but I feel like that's something Eeuro overlooked in this part - knowing TDC is important for a variety of operations. On a c900 it's impossible to know that without the marks on the flywheel. :(

The crank sensor fits beautifully - this is really an elegant solution versus a trigger wheel bolted onto the pulleys, and keeps the sensor in a safe location to boot:



This setup does limit options for a severely heavy-duty clutch (max is 228mm), but this clutch will hold everything the transmission should be given and I am way past pushing c900s hard. There aren't enough transmissions left to risk grenading one. So, yeah, I have a motor capable of 300hp that I will self-moderate to 240-250hp. Whatever - that's good power in a sub-3000lb car. If I want to blow up transmissions, I'll do that on my XR4Ti since T5s are a dime a dozen. ;)

Got the few remaining parts I need on order (spark plugs & IAT, IIRC) but that should be it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Oh yeah....

Something that proved unexpectedly hard to find was a weld-in bung or weld nut in M10x1.25, which is the thread size for Trionic's IAT sensor. I have a Jak Stoll FMIC, so there was no option to modify stock, cast intercooler pipes. My sensor has to go into artfully welded stainless steel pipe.

The only place that purported to have such a thing was aptly-named "Bung King," and honestly I had to draw a line before ending up with BUNG KING on my credit card statement. Plus, $10 or $15ea (after shipping) seemed exorbitant. Rather than doing that, I got a pair of steel 1/8" NPT bungs -



1/8" NPT is 10.2mm, close enough to 10mm that I don't care. I don't have an IAT sensor handy, so I don't know what sort of depth I'm dealing with, hence two varieties of bungs...

An M10 tap goes through



and voila, M10 weld-in bung. Most people would just weld a regular nut on, and that's cool, but that looks corny to me and it was worth $3 or whatever to make it look good. :)

Gotta get my intake pipe over to my welding guy before the sensor shows up!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Been moving... but moving real slow. We had a substantial heat wave that sapped all my energy, and some delays getting parts slowed things down. But, this is moving!

When I bought the car, the previous owner had relocated the battery to the trunk, but TBH not done it particularly thoughtfully. Battery had been moved to the driver's side, where it's really probably better on the passenger side to offset the driver's weight. Yeah, that's nitpicky! Also, the battery cable had been run through the cabin somewhat haphazardly, going over & under the seat rails, out through the fender by the fusebox, then back into the engine compartment through a bare sheetmetal hole. Not so good. As part of this project, I'm fixing it.

Also, this car is an '85, which means it's suffering from a crumbling wire harness. When I got it, I jettisoned the LH 2.2 system for 2.4, so most of the bad wire got addressed at that time. However, there was still a bunch of it around the headlights and near the fusebox which was time consuming, but worthwhile. During this surgery, I found a bunch more -




It's inevitable. I'm having trouble determining my approach here, whether I should get some pigtails from a junkyard or just replace those connectors with something modern. I'm leaning towards the latter, but I hate having a bunch of mismatching spliced wires so I have a bit an analysis paralysis. We'll see how it goes.

In the interim, I got the LH 2.4 system out of the car, rerouted the main battery cable and saved about 4', rerouted the alternator cable and saved about 5', and essentially eliminated all the wiring that goes across the firewall. I do love making piles of unnecessary wire!



Tonight I will finish up the main battery & alternator cable. In the process I'm going to install a fuse for the alternator as a) I think it's a good safety feature and b) I still have a dream of adapting a Ford or GM alternator to this car. I'd really like to have a newer, more efficient system in there and a few extra amps wouldn't hurt. Now having said that out loud, I wonder if a 140a unit from a 9-3 or 9-5 would fit.... I think those are still Bosch-style cases... Hmm...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
I love tidy wiring too, so I understand completely. What year did the bio-degradable wiring end? In Volvo-land this was sometime in '89 or so, everything from about '75 to '88 is junk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I love tidy wiring too, so I understand completely. What year did the bio-degradable wiring end? In Volvo-land this was sometime in '89 or so, everything from about '75 to '88 is junk.
For Saabs it's only 1985 and some of '86. Easy enough to avoid, unless you happen to want a snub-nose SPG... ;)

Last few days:

I routed the battery cable properly through the cabin and into the engine bay, which saved a bunch of cable and unnecessary bends & twists.



I installed a megafuse for the alternator - partly for safety, but partly because having the fuse holder facilitated cable management. ;) I don't particularly like having joints in the battery cable, but with the battery back in the trunk it would be *terrible* if a failed alternator ended up burning down the car. The megafuse will pop if the alternator ends up shorting itself to ground... it's a good thing to have; all modern cars have them.



Made a bracket and a smart place for the MAP sensor, directly under the windshield. Keeps it out of the way and made for good cable and vacuum hose routing. It actually sort of mimics the placement on the NG900, so that's nice.



Replaced the plugs and installed the DI cassette which felt way too good. ;) The distributor is still there just in case something goes wrong. I don't want to "waste" a distributor plug, so I don't want it installed until I'm sure it's all good to go. The ignition control module is gone, so the distributor is just spinning around doing nothing. ;)



My rewiring of the engine bay ends up with the big harness that goes under the windshield basically disappearing. The only thing left is the connector to the wiper motor. Really cleans up the engine bay, and eliminates more crappy '85 wiring that is just waiting to go bad.



Since I don't have AC, the only thing that harness carries is switched power for T5, the fuel pump power, and the wires for the evap canister. I ran that harness inside the car, through the dash. That meant splicing my rerouted harness onto the Trionic harness, easy enough. I also replaced all that previously mentioned bad door wiring from the comfort of the cabin. ;)

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
The factory LH setup and the replacement Trionic setup crams a pair of relays up above the ECM. It seems like a nice setup, until you need to do something with them. Although infrequent, I hate having to reach up under there or remove the lower dash pad to test or replace those relays! What an annoyance!



I didn't want to deal with that, so I built a small harness to relocate those relays to underneath the back seat. Since I have a battery junction back there, it makes for a nice place to get power to Trionic and eliminates the silly inline fuse holders that eEuroparts supplies. Don't get me wrong, their solution is totally functional, but "inline fuse" just seems really amateur. Using a box under the back seat means I can eliminate the alternator wire that goes over the transmission, the factory power distribution box, and some hefty wires that have to pass by the power steering reservoir. I used micro relays, since they are readily available these days and fit nicely in with ATM style fuses. It's all win. I went ahead and included an extra 8ga wire back here with the expectation of using it for a stereo amplifier some day.



Because this car needs to be smogged as a '94, I can't very well have an OBDII connector hanging around. The eEuroparts harness isn't even wired for OBDII, which seems insane. I installed the k-line and CAN terminals into the T5 connector, and then along with appropriate power & ground into a GT150 connector, which lives under the right side of the dash. I then used a standard OBDII 16-pin connector to build an adapter.



That pretty much wrapped up the interior wiring for T5 - the T5 ECM looks perfectly at home in the stock ECM location. It's quite lovely!



I then did a hasty job wiring the engine bay. While this aftermarket harness is nice it doesn't have the precise fit of the factory one. I am thinking about tucking it under the intake manifold for a cleaner look since it's not actually a great fit. I might roll with this for now, and then tuck it once I know it all works. ;)



Lacking anything better to do, I hooked up a scan tool to see what happened.



Answer: CEL. Because, yes in fact, the MAP sensor and IAT sensor are unplugged! I was able to display live data and watching things move around was pretty exciting. ;)



I then found this on the other side of the car:



:(

The only way to address is was the pull off the driver's door panel and about that time, mission creep set in fully.

Since the door panel has to come off, I'm going to replace the switch with a motor so I can install a keyless entry system. I ordered a Viper 350 Plus, which I've used before... it's a cheap, basic alarm/keyless system that is easy to install and is reliable. Also, I have been planning on replacing the factory door lock relay thingy with a DEI module that does the same thing. The DEI module has proven very reliable in other cars, and I find more and more of the Saab parts are failing out anyway. So, throw that on the to-do list.

Since I had to mess around with the conduit in the door jam, I also pulled speaker wire through it so I can put speakers in the doors. At least eventually. I'm not sure I want to commit to that work right now... but with wires in the door and all the work done to install an amp, maybe I will. I dunno. In any case, the hard work is done. ;)

I have what I think is my last order from eEuroparts coming - a T7 BCS and an IAT sensor. At that point, the car should run again. Then it's "just a matter" of installing the alarm so I can put the interior back together and get some miles on it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Got my order in, so the SPG now has an IAT and a BCS... I need to figure out how/where to install the BCS, so I'm going to stare at it for a while. :)

I hit up a junkyard and salvaged some wiring for the driver's door - it was too hot yesterday to play with a heat gun (for the heat shrink) but I'm going to try and do that tonight. I will probably also yank the passenger side seat so I can install the alarm and stereo amp - if I'm lucky get that done too.

I ordered a pair of Infinity component speakers to go in the front doors, but am having some difficulties figuring out how to install them. In the past, I've put speakers by the door handle, but that's a little obnoxious and creates some real limits in diameter and depth. This time, I'm looking to install where the map pocket goes... but that's going to involve some skills I don't have. Should be interesting. Heh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,796 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
My project became derailed at the beginning on August. My dog suffered an injury several years ago that resulted in an implant in her ankle... right around August 1st that implant began to fail so it had to come out. Spent most of August keeping an eye on her and then helping her through physical therapy. It took me a while to get the rhythm of this project again - remember where I was and what I needed to do, but things are moving along now. But, it's on again.

Made a bracket to hold the BCS. Not sure if it's going to work out long term, but it's very much in the right place so I'm going to give it a try. ;)



That, I think, completed the T5 install. Car still hasn't moved.

Since the interior was torn apart, I started work on some future stereo install.

In the past, I've installed 5.25" component speakers in the rear side panels, but what I ran into here in 2017 was totally unexpected: Nobody makes a shallow 4" or 5.25" speaker with a grille anymore. WTF? "No grilles included" was becoming really annoying. So, I hit up a junkyard a couple weeks ago and sliced up a car real bad, real real bad, so I could take some measurements and determined exactly what I was working with.

What I found was that I could clear 6.5" speakers with a 2" depth.



TBH, I'm not super pleased with how crowded that looks, but a) choices were limited, b) I don't have to sit back there (actually, nobody can - no seatbelts), and c) I couldn't continue with 4x10s. It'll do. Nicely, the speaker that fit 6.5"/2" depth/with grilles were Infinity Reference 6520CX components, which are exactly the same speakers I'll eventually be using in the front. I'm actually kinda stoked about that. Both are connected to a "mini" Kenwood KAC-M1804 amp, so I should have some good sound.



(In the photo, you can see the fuse block for Trionic on the left, the amp under the seat hinge, and a second fuse block for the amp and stereo. In an ideal world, I would have used a single fuse block for both, but I had some limitations with battery cable I was working around... it's livable :) )


I think I'm calling off the front door project for now - it's a lot of fabrication and I'm not prepared for it - not in my head and not with my talent. :D

For the rears, I used some M4 tee nuts and button-head M4x30mm screws from McMcMaster-Carr, which resulted in a super-clean, super-sturdy mounting. I had to get creative with the top screw using scrap from the cutouts, but it worked great. This will be the first time I've done this install where I can actually remove the speakers from the panels without cursing. All the other installs were really clumsy.



I also finished up my door lock relay replacement and alarm install. I'm tired of old Saab lock relays failing, so I retrofitted a DEI 451M double relay to do the same work. I don't have real expectation it will work longer than a factory relay, but it's $10 and available any time on Amazon in guaranteed working condition which puts it head and shoulders over junkyard factory parts. ;)

I replaced the door lock relay in the driver's door with a motor, so I lose central locking in that sense, but I will fix that by putting a switch in the center console, in the same way later convertibles did it. It's easy enough to do - just remove the terminals from the housing inside the door, put them back into a housing that matches a motor and use all the factory wiring. Win!

In the process of this, I also relocated the power lock relay from under the dash to under the rear set. I made a simple extension cable to do it, so again, no cutting factory wires. That places the lock relay right next to the alarm relay, so that wiring is ultimately simplified as well. ;) I should have pictures of that, too, but I don't.

With the locks finished, it took about 30 minutes to install the alarm. Again, no splicing. Just a terminal housing from a junkyard and some terminals from Mouser and voila, all plug & play.

Viper 350 Plus connected to the factory SaabGuard connector:



Viper "brain" mounted in the same place as the factory SaabGuard:



And the alarm antenna/LED mounted on the back of the driver's side b-pillar:



I have a couple more tasks - install the alarm's siren and hood open trigger, find new hardware for the passenger seat (hen's teeth!!!) then put the interior back together. I think... I hope... that's it!
 
1 - 20 of 139 Posts
About this Discussion
138 Replies
12 Participants
jvanabra
SaabCentral Forums
SaabCentral forum the most comprehensive Saab resource on the internet. Join our discussions on the Saab 9-3, Saab 9-5, Saab 900, Saab 9000 and all other Saab models, choose your forum.
Full Forum Listing
Top