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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So yesterday I had posted this thread where my car was having trouble accelerating, giving a jolt and stuttering whenever I tried to accelerate more than gently: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233018

Now today, when I turned the ignition to "On" but before I actually tried to start the car, I got a really strange staccato buzzing noise that sounds like it's coming from directly behind the instrument panel or fuse box, and my car will crank but not start when I do finally try to start it.

Also I noticed the radiator fans come on blowing really hard, but I would assume that's normal; I just hadn't ever noticed it before because my car would always start.

I couldn't find anybody with the same symptoms. I have a spare DIC that I'm going to try, but it had been upside down for a while so I have to wait a bit.

What is going on here???
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
And more about that buzzing sound:

It almost sounds like some kind of electric motor that's having trouble and keeps resetting. However the sound is definitely coming from the area behind the instrument panel/fuse box, and not the heater box.

When I listen under the hood, I can just barely hear this sound, so it seems to be something in the cabin.
 

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The DICE is under the dash above the OBDII connector I cant think of something else in that area but also I have not heard of them making noise.
Do you know if you have a CEL code?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I wasn't able to pull any codes; my OBD reader only appears to connect to the ECU after the engine has started. However it seems like I've done it before with the key in the 'on' position without starting, but it didn't seem to work this time.

I did happen to check for codes yesterday and I got none.
 

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I wasn't able to pull any codes; my OBD reader only appears to connect to the ECU after the engine has started. However it seems like I've done it before with the key in the 'on' position without starting, but it didn't seem to work this time.

I did happen to check for codes yesterday and I got none.
(I just checked my codes without engine on and it works as it should)
It should work in the ON position, now I wonder if the OBDII goes thru the DICE?
The fact that you cant read codes when in the on position and that you are getting a noise from the same area or nearby the OBDII and that now the car wont start makes me think they are all related.
BAD ECU? Bad DICE? someone else must have experienced something similar but for now I am a bit stumped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hmm apparently the DICE controls the radiator fan; if you turn your key to "on" but don't start the engine, does the radiator fan come on?

For me it's coming on full blast and then shuts off about thirty seconds after I remove the key. If this is not the normal behavior then I would be inclined to believe my DICE unit is faulty and that's causing the buzzing. From my basic understanding, a bad DICE shouldn't keep the engine from starting should it?
 

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Hmm apparently the DICE controls the radiator fan; if you turn your key to "on" but don't start the engine, does the radiator fan come on?

For me it's coming on full blast and then shuts off about thirty seconds after I remove the key. If this is not the normal behavior then I would be inclined to believe my DICE unit is faulty and that's causing the buzzing. From my basic understanding, a bad DICE shouldn't keep the engine from starting should it?
yes bad DICE can keep engine from starting....I think fan is unrelated and usually only comes on after the car is running or if it had been shut off recently and is still hot. It may also come on when the AC is on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hmm does anyone know how the immobilizer functions? Like would the engine still crank if the immobilizer was activated?

Just a thought that maybe my TWICE isn't allowing the engine to start? I've been having alarm problems so I pulled the fuse for the alarm horn. Also, it's apparently not the original TWICE module for the car either.
 

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Hmm does anyone know how the immobilizer functions? Like would the engine still crank if the immobilizer was activated?

Just a thought that maybe my TWICE isn't allowing the engine to start? I've been having alarm problems so I pulled the fuse for the alarm horn. Also, it's apparently not the original TWICE module for the car either.
the fuse under the hood? that also controls the ac system. I would put it back in and try and see if anything changes. I would also disconnect the battery, reset the ecu and try again. not sure if any of this will help but its a start
 

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Hmm does anyone know how the immobilizer functions? Like would the engine still crank if the immobilizer was activated?

Just a thought that maybe my TWICE isn't allowing the engine to start? I've been having alarm problems so I pulled the fuse for the alarm horn. Also, it's apparently not the original TWICE module for the car either.
Wont crank and you will get message on SID.
Ok looking at WIS I think it should start with DICE problem and it does control the fan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok I'll try putting the fuse back in and resetting the battery, etc. when I get home.

If it weren't for the buzzing under the dash I would be inclined to think it's either the CPS or DIC that's the problem. I'm really hoping it's one of those, because it could explain my problems I was having with acceleration as well, and I wasn't able to find any vacuum leaks thus far. *sigh...*

Also, for the record, I haven't had the AC/Alarm fuse in for months; I removed it back in November, so these problems didn't start suddenly after I removed it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok, so I got it in my head that it was the CPS based on the driving quality over the past couple of days, so I got a new CPS from Napa.

When I got home I cranked the engine just to see if it would start anyway, and I noticed that the tach needle wasn't moving at all as I cranked the engine. I've read that this is a classic sign that the CPS was the problem. By the time I finally got the new CPS installed it was dark out, so I didn't get to try any of the other checks.

Alas, even after I got the CPS installed, it would still not start. Tomorrow morning I'm planning on replacing the spark plugs and DIC just to see if that helps anything, but I really thought the CPS was the problem, based on the symptoms. And at this point I'm not sure if the buzzing behind the dash is a red herring or a clue to some other problem. :cry:
 

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I am still thinking it could be related to you not getting any power at the OBDII connector. WIS says OBDII goes thru DICE, it says to check wires jiggle them around and make sure you dont have a short or open.
The fact that you have no communication at the OBDII says something is not connected.
 

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The only time I've ever seen/heard something similar was when the battery died on my wife's 2007 9-3 two years ago. It was only 3 years old and about 20k miles - which I found too funny (GM). But I went to start it, and the gauges went all crazy and there was a buzzing sound. Then the key locked in the ignition. She had the motorist coverage so an on-call truck showed up and changed out the battery under warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

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Ok, I'll check the relays, in addition to the other ideas mentioned above. What relay do you think I should check exactly?
open the area up and listen, swap out the one that is buzzing...(if buzzing is coming from relay)
Swapping them around can help eliminate and isolate the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Fixed it!

Ok guys, you'll never believe how stupid easy the solution was. I was searching the web about relays and happened upon a forum about Hondas and found this post: http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2564477#post44639654

That guys situation fit mine EXACTLY, as I had just replaced the thermostat this weekend. So before I messed with any relays, I tightened the ground connection on the thermostat housing all the way. Apparently as I was reinstalling it the other day I hadn't thought it was that important to tighten all the way cause, come on, it's still metal touching metal right? The wrench I was using was really tight in that space so I had gotten lazy.

Put the key in the ignition, started right up (with a little more trouble than usual; I imagine the cylinders were probably flooded from cranking it so much without starting previously). I let it run for a while, then shut it off, and when I restarted it a few minutes later I had no problems. I took it out for a drive and it actually seems to drive much better than before. That may very well be due to my CPS that I installed last night.

So bottom line, an incomplete ground can cause the relays under the dash to buzz and prevent the car from starting. If you replace your thermostat, make sure you secure the ground really well. Hopefully we all learned something today, and thanks for all your help! ;ol;
 

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Ok guys, you'll never believe how stupid easy the solution was. I was searching the web about relays and happened upon a forum about Hondas and found this post: http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2564477#post44639654

That guys situation fit mine EXACTLY, as I had just replaced the thermostat this weekend. So before I messed with any relays, I tightened the ground connection on the thermostat housing all the way. Apparently as I was reinstalling it the other day I hadn't thought it was that important to tighten all the way cause, come on, it's still metal touching metal right? The wrench I was using was really tight in that space so I had gotten lazy.

Put the key in the ignition, started right up (with a little more trouble than usual; I imagine the cylinders were probably flooded from cranking it so much without starting previously). I let it run for a while, then shut it off, and when I restarted it a few minutes later I had no problems. I took it out for a drive and it actually seems to drive much better than before. That may very well be due to my CPS that I installed last night.

So bottom line, an incomplete ground can cause the relays under the dash to buzz and prevent the car from starting. If you replace your thermostat, make sure you secure the ground really well. Hopefully we all learned something today, and thanks for all your help! ;ol;
Excellent and congrats on tracking it down! (If Sherlock Holmes had been a driver, he'd have chosen a Saab just for the puzzle-solving.)
 

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I know this is an old post but my car just did the same" exact" thing that you described. Where is that ground at exactly? Thanks
 
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