SaabCentral Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I'm currently in the market to replace my 07 Aero Convertible with a newer model (since my bank won't finance anything older than 08. As a former car salesman who also grew up in the business I can definitely fend for myself but it still pisses me off (and breaks my heart) when I go through listings that I know someone is going to get screwed on. Unfortunately I can do very little about the system but I thought I could at least warn some of ya'll.

If you are on Ebay and you come across this car. DO NOT BUY!! or at least don't buy based off the idea that this car has never been in an accident like this guy says. First off if a dealership is offering you "AutoCheck" instead of CarFax or nothing at all DO NOT BUY FROM THEM. AutoCheck is very easy to manipulate and misses a lot of stuff. Any reputable dealer will provide you the Car Fax for free (although that doesn't automatically make them one). Secondly it is quite clear to anyone with any sort of car knowledge and Saab knowledge that this car doesn't have the original front spoiler. As the black kinda stands out and was not a "feature." How this guy has a 100% feedback is beyond me.

I'm going to make a statement I always cringe when I hear other people say but here it goes. I have 20/10 vision (look it up it's a real thing) and can see very small differences in color shading. That car not only had that lip replaced but painting was done to the entire front end of the vehicle. It's quite easy to tell in pictures like this (the hood isn't even lined up):


and this (see how the bumper just seems to be hanging on but missing clips?):



Now even if you don't believe me about the whole front in you can deny this car at least lost it's lip. So if they are willing to be dishonest about that what else aren't they telling you? Just be careful out there and if you'd like any advice on your next purchase (so you don't get screwed) feel free to PM me. I hate seeing car dealers screw people over. It CAN be a mutualistic relationship.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401132793943?forcerRptr=true&item=401132793943&viewitem=
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
So I'm currently in the market to replace my 07 Aero Convertible with a newer model (since my bank won't finance anything older than 08. As a former car salesman who also grew up in the business I can definitely fend for myself but it still pisses me off (and breaks my heart) when I go through listings that I know someone is going to get screwed on. Unfortunately I can do very little about the system but I thought I could at least warn some of ya'll.

If you are on Ebay and you come across this car. DO NOT BUY!! or at least don't buy based off the idea that this car has never been in an accident like this guy says. First off if a dealership is offering you "AutoCheck" instead of CarFax or nothing at all DO NOT BUY FROM THEM. AutoCheck is very easy to manipulate and misses a lot of stuff. Any reputable dealer will provide you the Car Fax for free (although that doesn't automatically make them one). Secondly it is quite clear to anyone with any sort of car knowledge and Saab knowledge that this car doesn't have the original front spoiler. As the black kinda stands out and was not a "feature." How this guy has a 100% feedback is beyond me.

I'm going to make a statement I always cringe when I hear other people say but here it goes. I have 20/10 vision (look it up it's a real thing) and can see very small differences in color shading. That car not only had that lip replaced but painting was done to the entire front end of the vehicle. It's quite easy to tell in pictures like this (the hood isn't even lined up):


and this (see how the bumper just seems to be hanging on but missing clips?):

Now even if you don't believe me about the whole front in you can deny this car at least lost it's lip. So if they are willing to be dishonest about that what else aren't they telling you? Just be careful out there and if you'd like any advice on your next purchase (so you don't get screwed) feel free to PM me. I hate seeing car dealers screw people over. It CAN be a mutualistic relationship.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401132793943?forcerRptr=true&item=401132793943&viewitem=
Couple things bother me about this whole thread...

If youre looking to replace the 07 you already own, with a newer model, why are you looking at 07's? After all, your bank wont finance anything older than an 08.
"As a former salesman who grew up in the business" why are you even looking on ebay at car dealer auctions? You don't get great deals at a dealer, for the most part, and as a "previous dealer" you know you can do better with a private sale. If your bank wont give you money for a private sale of a good, you either need to concentrate on your credit or find a better way to get a loan from your bank. I can get amounts from my bank in excess of what that car would cost...all I put on the loan form is "personal use" or "gift".

As a previous dealer you're glorifying Carfax? If the insurance company or auto shop/dealer that did the work on the car didn't report the repairs to car fax it wont be on there either. Carfax isn't reliable, its better than nothing in some instances, but far from accurate. Providing a carfax is just another fake assurance.

I have 20/15 as per my last PHA (periodic health assessment) which the military performs every year. I understand that what someone sees, 5 minute arc, at 20 feet, I see at 30...you would see at 40 since you have slightly better...now since you stated "going through listings" I would assume you didn't look at this car in person...with that said, 20/10, 20/15, 20/20 and the paint color displayed on your monitor have almost nothing, zero, zilch, nada to do with what you can see and cannot see. There are glares, reflections, camera angles, dust on the lens that can distort what you see at the end of your backlit LCD.

As an experienced painter, you don't need 20/10, 20/20 or even 20/40 to see paint distortions. People with less normal vision can still see them, they just have to be closer. You just need to know what you're looking for. I bet someone out there could train a dog to notice repaints.

"How this guy has 100% feedback" is simple. That feedback, like everyone else's, and mine is placed because the customer was happy with their purchase.

I don't know if you've ever seen cars straight from the dealer, but the gaps don't always line up. The paint isn't always flawless. My saab has never been in an accident and my front end isn't all perfect. The sun baking down on the fiberglass, things distort, my pass fender is 1/8th higher than the hood because I put it on the lift and that's the way it sat when I took it back down. Yes there could be clips missing, hardly "just hanging on" as there are a bunch of other nuts bolts clips holding that section on. Yes the po could have ran over a curb and hence why he added the $20 ebay lip. Its a used car. Someone that has $4,000+ obviously wants it the way it looks.

I don't know the car or the dealer but I think you might be wanting to bid on this car and your trying to scare away potential bidders.

Commendable.

But next time, put the VIN in your original post and if the other bidders have any brains, they would search the VIN, find your thread, read it, and would either get scared away or bid anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
I don't quite understand the purpose of this thread? Are we going to list and rate every individual Saab 9-3SS for sale?

If we do, I'm 100% certain that some will be dodgy as hell, bent as a banana and won't make it off the yard before self combustion occurs or disappearing in a cloud of white smoke. Then again, I'm also 100% certain that some of the cars will be legit as heck and some may actually be really good bargains and very reliable.

Why would you post a random 9-3SS that you haven't seen in person? Do you know that this car has been in an accident? Just because it doesn't have the original Aero front lip? That means absolutely nothing. Front lip damage is extremely common due to the low hanging nose - and all it takes is one high curb, one steep ramp or one steep drive way and you just cracked your front lip.

It also happened on mine, which has a big crack - but I'll live with it for now. Maybe the previous owner got annoyed with it, or literally broke it in half on a rock or curb.... doesn't mean the car was in an accident or is otherwise damaged.

I'm not saying that this particular car was or was not in an accident - because from the internet, you can't tell squat unless you actually inspect the car face to face or have a reliable and knowledgeable mechanic check it out in person.

Both my 9-3SS have had paint imperfections but neither car has ever been in an accident and the front lip of my Aero has been pretty beaten up. Doesn't mean a thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,300 Posts
And the hood is not a different color, look at the blue by the washer nozzles its the same. The reason the rest of the hood looks lighter is because of white clouds in the sky reflecting on the paint, my Lynx yellow does the same thing and the hood looks lighter with white clouds reflecting on it. And my paint except for my new bumper is ALL factory original. Peronally i think this blue vert looks great, albeit i havent seen it in person. I believe this color blue was only on Anniversary edition verts.

Except for this one. Which was a 1 off model called the "Sky Blue Edition"..


For some odd reason, the independence wheels look great on this color vert.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,861 Posts
Which was a 1 off model called the "Sky Blue Edition"..
Not quite a 1-off. A handful (I don't know actual numbers, probably less than 10-20) were produced and sold in the UK market for MY2012. Also available in Sedan and Combi. Great color.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Couple things bother me about this whole thread...

If youre looking to replace the 07 you already own, with a newer model, why are you looking at 07's? After all, your bank wont finance anything older than an 08.
"As a former salesman who grew up in the business" why are you even looking on ebay at car dealer auctions? You don't get great deals at a dealer, for the most part, and as a "previous dealer" you know you can do better with a private sale. If your bank wont give you money for a private sale of a good, you either need to concentrate on your credit or find a better way to get a loan from your bank. I can get amounts from my bank in excess of what that car would cost...all I put on the loan form is "personal use" or "gift".

As a previous dealer you're glorifying Carfax? If the insurance company or auto shop/dealer that did the work on the car didn't report the repairs to car fax it wont be on there either. Carfax isn't reliable, its better than nothing in some instances, but far from accurate. Providing a carfax is just another fake assurance.

I have 20/15 as per my last PHA (periodic health assessment) which the military performs every year. I understand that what someone sees, 5 minute arc, at 20 feet, I see at 30...you would see at 40 since you have slightly better...now since you stated "going through listings" I would assume you didn't look at this car in person...with that said, 20/10, 20/15, 20/20 and the paint color displayed on your monitor have almost nothing, zero, zilch, nada to do with what you can see and cannot see. There are glares, reflections, camera angles, dust on the lens that can distort what you see at the end of your backlit LCD.

As an experienced painter, you don't need 20/10, 20/20 or even 20/40 to see paint distortions. People with less normal vision can still see them, they just have to be closer. You just need to know what you're looking for. I bet someone out there could train a dog to notice repaints.

"How this guy has 100% feedback" is simple. That feedback, like everyone else's, and mine is placed because the customer was happy with their purchase.

I don't know if you've ever seen cars straight from the dealer, but the gaps don't always line up. The paint isn't always flawless. My saab has never been in an accident and my front end isn't all perfect. The sun baking down on the fiberglass, things distort, my pass fender is 1/8th higher than the hood because I put it on the lift and that's the way it sat when I took it back down. Yes there could be clips missing, hardly "just hanging on" as there are a bunch of other nuts bolts clips holding that section on. Yes the po could have ran over a curb and hence why he added the $20 ebay lip. Its a used car. Someone that has $4,000+ obviously wants it the way it looks.

I don't know the car or the dealer but I think you might be wanting to bid on this car and your trying to scare away potential bidders.

Commendable.

But next time, put the VIN in your original post and if the other bidders have any brains, they would search the VIN, find your thread, read it, and would either get scared away or bid anyway.
Okay so just a heads up I haven't read below this yet so if you made another post I will respond in order. Sorry in the delay but I had a medical procedure done and was out of it.

1. I am a huge fan of Saabs first and foremost and the 07 Saab 9-3 Aero Convertible is probably my favorite (well the Viggen Convertible is but that's a different story. So usually after I've gone through all the ones available I look at the current market of 07s just for kicks. Not to mention I will be trading in my car and knowing the current market value is required to not getting screwed.

2. The idea that you should go with a private party over a dealer is a complete myth. If you know what you are doing and how to test drive a car then there is no reason not to go to a reputable dealer. Especially one that has already done all the touch up work and small maintenace things in order to get the car ready for the showroom. Not only that but I can bargain with a car dealer and get them to sign a "we owe" on a car and if anything goes wrong with that car I can hold them accountable. With a private party sale there is no such thing. There are pros and cons to both and if I found a the right car at private party I would buy it. I mean I literally have a check from my bank and I just have to find the right car. When I bought my current one it was the only one in the entire country that was exactly that make and model, color, trim at that time.

3. You answered your own question, Carfax is better than nothing and it is damn sure better than what they are using. What I was implying was that a dealership that uses Autocheck instead of Carfax is cutting corners and if they are cutting corners there then they are cutting them elsewhere. Oh btw if Carfax makes a statement on your history and you buy that car and it turns out to be false then they will buy your car back from you.

4. I acknowledge that looking over the internet and in person is not the same thing but if I can see it on the internet it's only going to be worse in person. It's not just the 20 whatever part of the vision either it's the color vision too. I passed the TSA color shading test with a perfect score. Again that just feels like a weird thing to say so 20/10 was easier. My car has had front end pieces replaced and even taking it to the higest rated place in town that only services Mercs and Astons, I can still see the shade difference. Hell when companies use different materials for their bumpers than the rest of the car like with 5mph bumpers I can tell on NEW cars. It was something similar to this and on a timer.


5. Well that's not always the way it works, feedback can be bought. I too am an ebay seller and have seen some shady stuff in my day.

6. Yes I have seen cars right off the lot I sold both used and new.

7. I in no way want to buy this car and am not trying to do that, I am sincerely trying to help people and at least educate them. If going into that they know all this and still want to buy the vehicle then fine it's their money but to tell people it hasn't had anything done is not right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,300 Posts
Not quite a 1-off. A handful (I don't know actual numbers, probably less than 10-20) were produced and sold in the UK market for MY2012. Also available in Sedan and Combi. Great color.
No, i didnt mean the actual color. I meant the actual model, it was called "The Sky Blue Edition" cabriolet. Just like the independence edition had the # of each car produuced etched in the glass of the rear 1/4 windows 001/366 etc., this one had it also. It was a stillborn model that was supposed to be produced by Spyker, and the only one ever made was pieced together by parts in the Saab factory when they closed by ANA.

This was the 1/4 window of this 1 off cabrio.

 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,861 Posts
No, i didnt mean the actual color. I meant the actual model, it was called "The Sky Blue Edition" cabriolet. Just like the independence edition had the # of each car produuced etched in the glass of the rear 1/4 windows 001/366 etc., this one had it also. It was a stillborn model that was supposed to be produced by Spyker, and the only one ever made was pieced together by parts in the Saab factory when they closed by ANA.

This was the 1/4 window of this 1 off cabrio.

Ah yes you are correct, didn't realize you were referring to the vert only.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't quite understand the purpose of this thread? Are we going to list and rate every individual Saab 9-3SS for sale?

If we do, I'm 100% certain that some will be dodgy as hell, bent as a banana and won't make it off the yard before self combustion occurs or disappearing in a cloud of white smoke. Then again, I'm also 100% certain that some of the cars will be legit as heck and some may actually be really good bargains and very reliable.

Why would you post a random 9-3SS that you haven't seen in person? Do you know that this car has been in an accident? Just because it doesn't have the original Aero front lip? That means absolutely nothing. Front lip damage is extremely common due to the low hanging nose - and all it takes is one high curb, one steep ramp or one steep drive way and you just cracked your front lip.

It also happened on mine, which has a big crack - but I'll live with it for now. Maybe the previous owner got annoyed with it, or literally broke it in half on a rock or curb.... doesn't mean the car was in an accident or is otherwise damaged.

I'm not saying that this particular car was or was not in an accident - because from the internet, you can't tell squat unless you actually inspect the car face to face or have a reliable and knowledgeable mechanic check it out in person.

Both my 9-3SS have had paint imperfections but neither car has ever been in an accident and the front lip of my Aero has been pretty beaten up. Doesn't mean a thing.
No not every add but I was hoping to educate some people. I realize the front lip is an issue on these cars as I've owned an 07 Aero for more than 3 years now but to sit there and say that you can't tell the condition of a car over the internet is complete ignorance. I have personally helped many friends purchase vehicles over the internet and have them delivered and not one has had to send them back. Not only that but the dealerships I worked at bought vehicles through auctions over the web all the time. If you know what you are looking for then 9 times out of 10 you won't get burnt.

Come on man you are comparing what are essentially HDR and professionally done photos to one taken by someone at a dealer? I mean kinda like this.


So here is that car:


and here is a normal one:


Now you're probably gonna be like those have been altered that doesn't prove anything but what I'm trying to show cause it's hard to get across on the monitor is just how different the paint is. I mean even in the reflections and the pain on the other car is 9 years old. The pain on the front end of the car does not reflect in the same way as everything else. I wasn't just talking about the gap between the hood and the grill vertically either I was talking about how it doesn't line up if you're looking at the car from the side.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
Okay so just a heads up I haven't read below this yet so if you made another post I will respond in order. Sorry in the delay but I had a medical procedure done and was out of it.

1. I am a huge fan of Saabs first and foremost and the 07 Saab 9-3 Aero Convertible is probably my favorite (well the Viggen Convertible is but that's a different story. So usually after I've gone through all the ones available I look at the current market of 07s just for kicks. Not to mention I will be trading in my car and knowing the current market value is required to not getting screwed.

Expected you would say this.

2. The idea that you should go with a private party over a dealer is a complete myth. If you know what you are doing and how to test drive a car then there is no reason not to go to a reputable dealer. Especially one that has already done all the touch up work and small maintenace things in order to get the car ready for the showroom. Not only that but I can bargain with a car dealer and get them to sign a "we owe" on a car and if anything goes wrong with that car I can hold them accountable. With a private party sale there is no such thing. There are pros and cons to both and if I found a the right car at private party I would buy it. I mean I literally have a check from my bank and I just have to find the right car. When I bought my current one it was the only one in the entire country that was exactly that make and model, color, trim at that time.

A dealer that sells for the highest price he can get because he runs a business? A dealer that tacks on the repairs of small items to the price? The detailing, believe it or not, even if it says its free, its not. That "we owe" on a car? You pay for that. Wait, you actually believe when the dealer tells you you're getting the car for $300 more than they paid for it??? Plus, you don't really know the history of a car, you cant ask anyone what was done, you cant find out crap unless you are suggesting you're dumb enough to think everything on a car fax or auto check is gospel.


3. You answered your own question, Carfax is better than nothing and it is damn sure better than what they are using. What I was implying was that a dealership that uses Autocheck instead of Carfax is cutting corners and if they are cutting corners there then they are cutting them elsewhere. Oh btw if Carfax makes a statement on your history and you buy that car and it turns out to be false then they will buy your car back from you.

I didn't answer my own question, I asked YOU a question. Personally, it doesn't matter to me if a car fax or autocheck is included with the car or not, knowing that a dealer will provide that, and the simplicity of it being inaccurate makes it worthless to me. Know anyone that got their car bought back? Carfax only buys your car back if the accident was reported to the DMV and btw, there's tons of people out there that bought cars that had a wrong carfax and they never "got their car bought" by carfax, and, if you read other car forums that discuss carfax and autocheck, the general opinion that autocheck is a bit more accurate for accidents, however, carfax shows maintenance in some instances, again only if the reporting garage, maintenance facility reports it.

4. I acknowledge that looking over the internet and in person is not the same thing but if I can see it on the internet it's only going to be worse in person. It's not just the 20 whatever part of the vision either it's the color vision too. I passed the TSA color shading test with a perfect score. Again that just feels like a weird thing to say so 20/10 was easier. My car has had front end pieces replaced and even taking it to the higest rated place in town that only services Mercs and Astons, I can still see the shade difference. Hell when companies use different materials for their bumpers than the rest of the car like with 5mph bumpers I can tell on NEW cars. It was something similar to this and on a timer.



Again, no kidding, any experienced painter or anyone who tries hard enough can see paint fluctuations. You don't have Kryptonian, superman style eyesight, and especially looking at cars in a monitor. I find it hilarious when people look at things in a monitor and right away its gospel. I've seen cars in magazines, or on websites pictures taken, scratches in the paint, dents and the resolution just doesn't capture it, its simply not there. See the same car at a car show and it either looks better or worse, but never the same.
When you look at something, your brain sees that through your eyes, it processes it and how you perceive that object is it. Simple.
You come here, talk about a car that a picture was taken of, not knowing the light source, camera model, type of media used, cell phone perhaps, uploaded onto a computer which involves a hard disc with magnetism using 1's and 0's, rereading it and sending it to a server through all kinds of routers, switches, cat 6 lines converted to fiber, cable, writing that data onto a server, which then displays all that said data in webpage form to which you come along and click that auction which then has to send that same data to your computer through other cat 6, fiber, cable lines through different switches and routers, hubs so it will display on your $100 monitor. Gee, what would I rather look at? Something with my own eyes, or something manipulated with all this technology crap?
Then you come here, and call the dealer a liar and slander his name just because you think your eyeballs are far superior than the rest of the boring, cant fly, or melt steel, human world?
I will agree to one thing...in the one pic you posted, it does look like the hood is a very different color so I can see where you get that from, and if it wasn't for the clouds, that are somewhat hard to distinguish on a monitor I might have agreed with you...but as soon as I looked at it, I knew it was cloud cover...so maybe you just really didn't look.




5. Well that's not always the way it works, feedback can be bought. I too am an ebay seller and have seen some shady stuff in my day.

So now you're suggesting the dealer is crooked and bought his great record instead of people actually feeling good about their purchase.

6. Yes I have seen cars right off the lot I sold both used and new.

As I, and painted, and bodywork, and polished, and repaired.

7. I in no way want to buy this car and am not trying to do that, I am sincerely trying to help people and at least educate them. If going into that they know all this and still want to buy the vehicle then fine it's their money but to tell people it hasn't had anything done is not right.
So how is this educating? After all, if you need superman style vision to decipher shades, distinguish between repaints or have a doctorate degree to comprehend that a few clips are missing or the aero bumper is missing, how is that going to help the rest of the normal seeing, dumb, uneducated population? I would hate to see you try to educate someone needing glasses, can your eyes be educated into seeing better? Here I thought it was always just plenty of carrots.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top