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Discussion Starter #1
I thought I would post this. About 10 years ago I had my rotors turned and installed Akebono's. The brakes never felt perfect but they were good. Last year before we went on a 3200 trip I decided to dump the Akebono's to freshen things up, even though they had a 1/4 of life left. I installed some semi-metallic Wagner pads. I cleaned the rotors up before installing them.

I have to say they sucked:cry:. If anything the braking was almost scary. I was hoping they would break in and start to act as good as the Akebono's but no luck.

When we got back home I decide to do an experiment. This time I went on ebay and got drilled/slot rotors for my wagon with ceramic brake pads. The brand is called Max Advanced Brakes out of Canada. I have to say I did not expect much out of them. Since it had been about 2 years since I bleed my brakes I went ahead and did that also.

Results? Outstanding I have say. ;ol; I was doubtful though. In the past about 20 years ago I had horrible experiences with drilled rotors. These I have had on the car for about 3 months and they have been great.

I can say one complaint. When backing up they squeal louder than normal. This has been something my brakes have done since I have owned the car. Now it is louder for sure. I made sure the e-brakes are not dragging when I adjusted them. I did use CRC dick brake quieter all the way around. So no idea on what can stop that.

Oh and I do have stainless steel brake lines on all 4 corners.

Pics for the heck of it:



If anyone has figured out how to stop the brake squeal when backing up please let me know. ;ol;
 

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I thought I would post this. About 10 years ago I had my rotors turned and installed Akebono's. The brakes never felt perfect but they were good. Last year before we went on a 3200 trip I decided to dump the Akebono's to freshen things up, even though they had a 1/4 of life left. I installed some semi-metallic Wagner pads. I cleaned the rotors up before installing them.

I have to say they sucked:cry:. If anything the braking was almost scary. I was hoping they would break in and start to act as good as the Akebono's but no luck.

When we got back home I decide to do an experiment. This time I went on ebay and got drilled/slot rotors for my wagon with ceramic brake pads. The brand is called Max Advanced Brakes out of Canada. I have to say I did not expect much out of them. Since it had been about 2 years since I bleed my brakes I went ahead and did that also.

Results? Outstanding I have say. ;ol; I was doubtful though. In the past about 20 years ago I had horrible experiences with drilled rotors. These I have had on the car for about 3 months and they have been great.

I can say one complaint. When backing up they squeal louder than normal. This has been something my brakes have done since I have owned the car. Now it is louder for sure. I made sure the e-brakes are not dragging when I adjusted them. I did use CRC dick brake quieter all the way around. So no idea on what can stop that.

Oh and I do have stainless steel brake lines on all 4 corners.

Pics for the heck of it:



If anyone has figured out how to stop the brake squeal when backing up please let me know. ;ol;
+1,000,000 for Max Brakes out of Richmond Hill Ontario Canaduh!
I'm running the blanks on mine, they've been fantastic (there is some squeal when I first brake after 8+ hours of the car sitting, Efff me, sometimes it's insanely loud!). For the price, I can't think of any reason to pay more from another company (unless it's a track only car).
The break in procedure was fun too lol
 

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Totally. I almost sh!t my pants the first time. I even took off the backing plates off of the brake pads and put Brake Quieter on it. Still no luck. :roll:
https://i.imgur.com/0kNiv0d.jpg
Did you get the black ones, Anti-rust silver, or plain drilled? (I can't see images, work has them blocked).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Brakes still squeal like a new born pig when backing up. I decided to try another set of brake pads. Today I installed some Pagid pads. They are excellent. They do not squeak at all, even when backing up. I wish I tried them 10 years ago.
 

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The squeal was that bad, huh? How long did you end up having the pads on there for?

Friend put these in a few different cars; only had a single set warp after about a year and half of heavy use in a Kia. Other than that, he says they have been great.

I was going to put a set onto our Sedan, but I was hesitant about the drilled and slotted rotors. I'm glad to hear they are working for you.

I ended up getting a set of Genius coated rotors and Perfect Stop semi-metallic brake pads, they were about the same price through a local parts guy. They work good, pedal feels solid and best of all there is no reverse squeal. I've used this exact combo on three cars so far and have not had an issue, knock on wood, and I hope that continues.

Genius is also a Canadian company, but their rotors are made in China. I think this is also the case with Max Brakes. The perfect stop pads I got were all made in USA by either wagner or bosch. They don't make too much brake dust either.

The wagon has Zimmerman rotors with TRW pads. Lots of brake dust. Lots of reverse squeal, but not bad enough to make you want to swap pads. I feel like they stop better, but maybe that's just what I subconsciously want to feel considering they cost about twice as much as the set I put on the Sedan. Had them on for over 2 years now and they have been great. Tons of pad material left, and front rotors still look pristine. Rear rotors are not coated and now look like crap, but they work fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The akebono pads I owned for around 10 years. They always squealed when backing up. The Max ones have been on my car for 3 weeks. They never stopped squealing when backing up. If anything they were embarrassing loud.

No issue with the rotors so far.
 

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I put slotted and drilled rotors and pads from R1 concepts and Goodrich braided steel brake lines on my 2000 Aero wagon and they have been great.

Love those R1 Concept brakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Update. Brakes are still doing great and stopping great. The Pagid pads are some dusty hoes though. Every week my rims need to be cleaned. I forgot to mention I also have braided brake lines from Techna-Fit and they work great.
 

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regardless of the pad used, the amount of pressure modulation required to stop the car is dependent on many things, and the driver has to adapt to the requirement ( habituation)

Folks like Akebono on here, I have no experience with them. Pagid yes, and they are very good. But regardless of the pad the driver has to adapt to the stopping characteristic of the pad compound.

The PBR pads back in the day, during a brake stop , ramped up the friction so if the pedal pressure was constant the stopping rate would increase. I didn't like that, but some drivers did, and learned to relax pressure on the pedal to achieve a smooth consistent stop. That's hard to learn to lift off the brake pedal while stopping more quickly....

Linear pad response suits me, as that's what my preference is, a smooth consistent stop, aided by the linear response from the brake pad. But its not a constant pad to pad. And you get nothing for nothing.

For example, the HP1000 Ferodo pad used in the Brembo Cobalt set up I use on the SAAB is brilliant on track, consistent without fade when used properly, but creates a lot of dust, (it is a sintered metallic filler pad material) In the rain on first apply, the HP1000 startles the driver as the initial "bite" is like totally nothing for about two seconds. In winter, when cold, the same thing, it just does not stop and you find yourself in a minor panic for a couple of seconds. I did slot my rotors to overcome this quirk and it did improve. But unless I am tracking the car, the HP1000 is no longer my daily choice.

Same car same caliper with a 17D prefix ceramic ac delco pad, well this pad works great in the cold, almost no brake dust, has very consistent "bite" and linear response, but takes a little getting used to, as it just does not have the same braking co efficient as the HP 1000. It also tends to suffer a little fade at ultra high speed 140 mph stops. So the driver has to adapt to the pad and judge brake applications as needed, probably a little / much earlier on this 17D ceramic pad, when compared to the HP 1000 pad.

That said, I find most drivers, street or track, brake way too late for corners and so entry speeds on the track are often slow as a result and corner exit speed suffers a lot, as the combination of late braking and thus overslowing in a shorter distance results in late turn in and missing the apex etc. And the same drivers who beat up the brakes suffer from cracked rotors and boiling brake fluid . lol

On the street, rushing up to red lights results in risks from cars behind not dealing well with your unexpected braking rate, and thus potential for a rear end collision, etc...timing traffic lights well means more gentle braking and earlier brake application, which of course lights up your brake lights for folks behind, but this technique emphasizes the need for good visual tracking - scanning 30 seconds ahead or even more, depending on rate of speed.

which by the way is essential on the track. The faster you drive, the farther ahead visual scanning is needed. We evolved to walk, run, maybe ride horses Cars are a whole other dimension..



that's what I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
regardless of the pad used, the amount of pressure modulation required to stop the car is dependent on many things, and the driver has to adapt to the requirement ( habituation)

But regardless of the pad the driver has to adapt to the stopping characteristic of the pad compound.

On the street, rushing up to red lights results in risks from cars behind not dealing well with your unexpected braking rate, and thus potential for a rear end collision, etc...timing traffic lights well means more gentle braking and earlier brake application, which of course lights up your brake lights for folks behind, but this technique emphasizes the need for good visual tracking - scanning 30 seconds ahead or even more, depending on rate of speed.

which by the way is essential on the track. The faster you drive, the farther ahead visual scanning is needed. We evolved to walk, run, maybe ride horses Cars are a whole other dimension..

that's what I think.
I completely agree with all this. And I am a type of driver who is braking before I get into any turn or running up on a red light. I do not want to loose my car anytime soon and I have yet to be rearended in the last 35 years I have been driving.

Like I said the Akebono's never did bite good enough for me. At times it got a little scary when I had to brake at the last minute due to a reckless driver. In all honesty a few times they scared the sh1t out of me due to them not "biting" fast enough when needed.

At the end of last year before we did our yearly 2600 mile trip in the Saab I put on some Wagner's Quiet Cast. They had a ton of fade to them. And I am not one to ride my brakes. So that 2600 mile trip was exhausting wondering if they were going to give out on me. ;oops:

Next were the Max Advanced Brakes. They worked great. But like I mentioned above when backing up they were an absolute embarrassment. It sounded like a pen of pigs having a hay day. :cry:

I am sticking with Pagid pads for a while. My next option might be the Saab factory brake pads to see how they do. I am not sure. We recently got a ton of moisture and the Pagid's got a little loud. But other than they have been great.

Thanks for the feedback.
 

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I am sticking with Pagid pads for a while. My next option might be the Saab factory brake pads to see how they do. I am not sure. We recently got a ton of moisture and the Pagid's got a little loud. But other than they have been great.

Thanks for the feedback.

The factory pads seem to have the same good bite and linear response in cold, warm, dry, or wet.


regardless of the pad used, the amount of pressure modulation required to stop the car is dependent on many things, and the driver has to adapt to the requirement ( habituation)

Not so easy when you drive different vehicles. I wind up driving various vehicles all over the city, mostly twice a week (there are two of us in the car, we usually alternate driving days), for ~100 km. The Nissan Versa seemed to gain braking effectiveness just before it came to a stop, so I had to back off the pedal. The Chevy Cruze lost effectiveness, so I had to press harder. (Or was it the other way around?) The piece of crap Ford Escape hybrid seement to hit regen the instant you looked at the brake pedal, putting you through the windshield, but stopping effectiveness didn't increase that much with greater pedal pressure. The Nissan Altima is mostly neautral....but it's a miserable car to get out of if you're the passenger, and yes you have to get out at least 70 times a day.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I am stilling running the brake combo and they are doing great. Still dust as a pig in a pen though.
 
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