[BobSaabit]

My initial problem was my car wouldn't start when it stalled out. Initially it sounded like a crank position sensor. Then it died while driving on the highway showing a P1105 and a P1300. Now the turbo is very loud and doesn't seem to have any boost.

I wouldn't think a massive boost leak would stop the car from running altogether, maybe I have more than one problem.

I think I'll look at the boost issue now since it's reproducible. I've seen some videos on how to make a a boost leak detector. It looks like I also check the waste gate and end play of the turbo without removing the turbo from the car.

I've had the car a month or so, it ran pretty good for several hundred miles. I got 32 mpg driving it from Virginia to North Carolina. It seemed to have similar power to my wife's 2004 9-3 convertible.

P1105 is a lack of boost (charge air pressure). A very serious lack. It should not cause the car to stop running, it would just run very sluggish. The most common reason would be that an intercooler hose blew off. They can look like they are on and actually be blown off the fitting, so you need to get a hand down there and check on the output side.

P1300 is random misfire, typically misfire on multiple cylinders.Misfiring bad enough to dump raw gas into the cat and be a concern. I would expect that it would be accompanied by some additional cylinder specific codes. But that's not guaranteed, I'm guessing. The most common reason for that would be a bad DIC and/or plugs.

Is the DIC old or unknown? Plugs? If you pull the DIC off, there's a date code on it. If you have some vehicle info from the sale, perhaps you can estimate the miles on it. If it doesn't have "SEM" on the label, it's likely aftermarket and they go bad. If it's OEM, they die round 70K miles.

I'd be suspicious that you have two issues here. The car should run like an underpowered Pinto if the turbo has issues, but it should run fine.

 

[BobSaabit]

Reach down where the hose that comes from the intercooler and goes to the charge air pipe is and check it with your hand. Looking isn't good enough because when it blows off, it stays roughly in place but spews all your charge air under boost .

You don't need to plug the W line. It's blowing air out, not pulling it in. You can if you want to but it shouldn't matter in the context of testing the turbo hardware.

Wastegate is shut when engine is off. Or at least it should be. Reach down there and try to move the lever. It should be very hard to pull. When the engine starts, it should stay in the same position with the W hose disconnected.

If you want to actually see the wastegate to verify if it's closed or open, you would need to remove the downpipe. That's only three nuts on the turbo studs, but if they haven't been off in a long time they can be a real PITA - especially the bottom one on your T7. You need a short handled 13mm wrench and some time. It's usually about 1/8 turn at a time, flip the wrench, another 1/8 turn, etc. A small MAPP gas torch helps. Soaking with PB Blast or Kroil or similar over three days before helps.

 

[BobSaabit]

I got bypass valve from the WIS. It's the divertor valve Checking the bypass valve (B235R, B205L/R) – 9-3 2000 | SAAB Workshop Information System Online

Official WIS names, except when they change them, LOL. These names get a lot of abuse.

Solenoid Valve:

Bypass Valve:

Turbo Bypass Control Valve:

 

[BobSaabit]

Just to triple verify... definitely pressure coming at the wastegate through the W hose. It starts closed, boost building blows it open subject to whatever limits the airflow to it like the (Saab Term) Solenoid Valve.

The Bypass valve is vacuum operated. When you go off throttle, vacuum appears and it pulls the (Saab Term) Bypass valve open. On the T7, that's subject to the operation of the (Saab Term) Turbo Bypass Control Valve on the firewall.

 

[BobSaabit]

I'm talking about the actual wastegate. Wondering if it's bad if I can replace it.

It would be very unusual for it to be bad. Possible, unlikely.

Pull the downpipe off at the turbo. Check it. I'm guessing it's OK. While you're in there you can check shaft play (axial and radial) and get a good look at the wheel. Look at the housing too for evidence of damage (impeller scraping).

 

[BobSaabit]

You can just pull out that pcb banjo bolt. Copper washer top and bottom.

The stock bypass valve - the one on the charge air hose with the single vac line - probably won't hold 20 psi. 16 is OK.

Yeah, that turbo exhaust wheel is done. Is there serious play in the bearing? I'm also wondering where that chunk went. Run a compression test.

But you're right - that much missing blade would not seriously affect boost.

 

[BobSaabit]

I'd think on the exhaust side that it would probably be in the catalytic converter. I'd think if the inlet side is okay my engine didn't likely eat anything. A compression test might be good to do as a sanity check.

Oh yeah, I shouldn't post before coffee.

But a dry/wet test would be good; cold and hot if you can swing it.

 

[BobSaabit]

That turbo is done for... It will be out of balance and wobbly. There will likely be future destruction. You definitely need to check the inlet side. Something caused that. A missing blade will definitely affect boost... It's a hole for exhaust to go through that doesn't spin the impeller.

It will affect boost, but not enough for his level of low boost.

But I too am more concerned about why. Bearing check needed.

 

[BobSaabit]

Stock bypass will hold 20psi. I use the tube and valve from a 9-3 on my XR4Ti running up to 25psi.

Some guys have reported flutter in the past with boost that high on the stock flapper. I suppose that for testing in the driveway it's not critical- it holds or not.

 

[BobSaabit]

They're referring to an o-ring that is at the turbo end of the aluminum bypass pipe. It's part # 7987415. I've never replaced one. They don't seem to get abused. If you're ordering other stuff from e-saab and are already paying shipping, they're cheap enough .You could use something generic.

#35 here: 7987415 by OES | Bypass Hose O-Ring

You will need the manifold gasket for the turbo. Part # 9113937 9113937 by OES | Turbo to Manifold Gasket

There's an oil connection on the bottom to drain back to the pan. It's a pipe that has two bolts on the turbo side and plugs into a hose that goes into the oil pan. Part # 55563093. 55563093 by OES | Turbo Oil Return Gasket

On the other end of that pipe is a hose that connects to the pan. Be nice to it, they are no longer available.

You might also want a pair of washers for the banjo bolt that attaches to the intake pipe. 8124158 by OES | Gasket Those are either 12mm or 14mm simple copper crush washers and again, you can use generic if you can find them locally.

 

[BobSaabit]

I think a a bad miss due to bad spark would cause low boost and my stalling issue (if the sparks totally stopped), but I think I would also hear it. It would also explain my P1300 and P1105. That sounds like a bad DIC or ECU. I need to get a Tech2.

However I should get more boost than none with an a really poorly running engine with the waste gate hose totally disconnected. I don't hear any misses, it just feels anemic and has no boost.

I'll put my usual plug in for chinacardiags.com. About $300 shipped. $50 more with the case. Invaluable when you have one of these cars.

Bad ECU is very rare. Bad DIC is common. If you can swing the money, replace the DIC and keep the other one as a spare. I think everyone here carries a spare, LOL. Replace the plugs, either the stock platinum or BCPR6ES. Gap to .9mm. I would think you'd have more misfire codes with a bad DIC, but it can be unpredictable. Tech II will let you see misfire counts.

If you get the turbo fixed, you can try just the plug replacement first, properly gapped. That often ends DIC codes. But again, if you can afford a new DIC, it's not a bad move for a Saab owner.

P1105 "can be generated if the turbo is defective". (Download the WIS and install it...). So start with the turbo and see if that cures it. The other possibilities are leaks after the compressor.

 

[BobSaabit]

Just got my used turbo, the impellor vanes all look good and I don't feel any endfloat. However, I'd guess there's a half a millimeter of side to side float. I imagine this would diminish with oil and certainly with some oil pressure. Does this sound okay?
I had thought I'd swap this out and then rebuild my old turbo or get it rebuilt.in a year or two. It looks nicer outside than my old turbo. The housing and fittings have a bit less corrosion

If you put a feeler gauge between the very edge of the exhaust impeller vane and the housing, how much actual play do you measure? Also look for evidence that a vane ever hit the housing.

Ideally there shouldn't be any play, but as long as you have adequete clearance, you can use it. Most of these turbos have 100K+ miles on them, so finding one with zero play is unlikely.

 

[BobSaabit]

I couldn't feel any difference when I pushed the vane toward my 0.002" feeler guage but I could feel some extra resistance with my 0.025" feeler guage. I felt a similar or slightly less amount of resistance when I pushed the other way and pulled my 0.005" guage through, and a bit more of tug with my 0.006" guage, so I'm going to say there's about 0.003" (0.08 mm) total side to side. That's not as much as I'd thought.

That's not bad.

The other thing I like to check is to grab the shaft on both the input and output ends and wiggle it. You won't be able to measure like that as both hands will be busy wigglin'. You'd need an assistant.

But, the play you measured is the play on the output side so that doesn't really change if the input side has play too. It's just good to know.

 

[BobSaabit]

You might want to pull the cam cover so you can verify the cam position as fully closed. There's not much room for error there.

 

[BobSaabit]

I didn't see any branding on my DIC, so I think it's a cheapo one. The plugs I had were NGK BCPR7ES. I think it should be NGK PFR7H-10.

You can run the BCPR7ES plugs. They are good for about 10 to 12 K. You can get four for about $10. You can also run the OG 9–3 spec PFR platinum plugs.They will last 50 to 60 K. They will cost about $50. So same long-term cost. A lot of us prefer the cheaper copper plugs because we want to be in there every year anyway. L O L.

If your DIC is non-factory, then it's definitely suspect. The aftermarket ones have a bad reputation. See the other thread on what's a factory DIC now for more info.

 

[BobSaabit]

Here's a picture of the underside of my Digital Ignition Cassette. I believe the NGK ones would say NGK on them somewhere.

Definitely aftermarket.