SaabCentral Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,671 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys, I've done some searches, and I'm beginning to think that there's no difference between the B234L vs the B234R engines (Base vs Aero) as long as the car is "Post Trionic"

Before I was under the impression that the B234R had special pistons to deal with the extra power? Is this true? Or is the only difference software and the TD04 turbo? I know the Vig came with under piston oil squirters and a ridiculously expensive set of nimonic alloy covered exhaust valves... (I payed like $136 for EACH when SAAB incompetently rebuilt my engine...)

Of course, this has nothing to do with my Viggen engine having been destroyed...:roll: (for the full horrible story, here's a link http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58612 ) But if I could pick up a 9000 base motor for much cheaper than a 9k aero motor and use my Viggen TD04...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,534 Posts
B234R only differnce IIRC is the software and TD04.

B234* post MY94. Note a MY93 9k Aero is different block.

Only use the bottom end of B234* engine, use the T7 head etc from the Viggen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,671 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
aeropilot said:
B234R only differnce IIRC is the software and TD04.

B234* post MY94. Note a MY93 9k Aero is different block.

Only use the bottom end of B234* engine, use the T7 head etc from the Viggen.
Heh heh... Unfortunately my head is in rough shape between the overrevving and the improper repair, and I'd really prefer to use a complete motor (and maybe even the tranny) from the 9000...

I suppose that asking if the tranny's are the same is pointless, because no one seems to have actually taken the complete 9k drivetrain and dropped it in a Viggen...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,534 Posts
Fast_Ed said:
Heh heh... Unfortunately my head is in rough shape between the overrevving and the improper repair, and I'd really prefer to use a complete motor (and maybe even the tranny) from the 9000...

I suppose that asking if the tranny's are the same is pointless, because no one seems to have actually taken the complete 9k drivetrain and dropped it in a Viggen...
The transmission is completely different, so that's a no-no:nono;

You need to use the Viggen top half of the engine with ancillaries to work with the T7 ECU from the Viggen.
The 9k engines use T5.

There may even be subtle differences with the ancillaries etc for the 9k block, such as the crankshaft postion sensor etc....:confused: :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,671 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
aeropilot said:
The transmission is completely different, so that's a no-no:nono;

You need to use the Viggen top half of the engine with ancillaries to work with the T7 ECU from the Viggen.
The 9k engines use T5.

There may even be subtle differences with the ancillaries etc for the 9k block, such as the crankshaft postion sensor etc....:confused: :confused:
Is there a place that I can find out for sure? Perhaps I have to look up part numbers for everything that attaches to the block and see what's different....

Just got a new water pump and aircon compressor, would like to keep those...

Is the crank position sensor different too? Maybe this is more than I am cut out for :eek:

I do know they probably spent all that money on 'nimonic alloy' exhaust valves for a reason.. So keeping them may have an advantage.. but does it outweigh the 136 dollar each replacement cost...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
I am currently doing the same thing, the engine is now ready to go back in.

If you want to use the T5 head, you will need to maken an adapter at the inlet side and some minor custom stuff. Nothing too serious though.

If you need more info, drop me a note.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
593 Posts
The turbo b234 engines have the same block/pistons/crank etc
the 235 engines were a "development" of this where they cheapened it in certain ways
pistons..they moved away from the forged ones on to normal ones only capeable of 300 hp
Oil pump ...derated it
oil squirters deleted
and probably other stuff as well

Head was better flowing but only because they use thinner valves IMHO
A 234 head can be made to flow like a 235

234 engines can be uprated to produce stupid horsepower even with interstellar mileage on them
430 hp /406 ft/lbs of torq at 237,000 miles (my own car )

I would swap out the block and keep the T7 head and all the ancilieries that go with it
simple plug and play

I would find a competent shop to do it tho
If I was planning a tuning regime I would do the full monty on the 234 block

lighten ,balance ,shot peen the conrods, balance the crank check the bores
renew piston rings that kinda stuff
It soulds expensive but over here this lot would cost you less than $1000
It is a little extra but you will end up with an engine that is unburstable and is smooth as you like
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,671 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Marky said:
I am currently doing the same thing, the engine is now ready to go back in.

If you want to use the T5 head, you will need to maken an adapter at the inlet side and some minor custom stuff. Nothing too serious though.

If you need more info, drop me a note.
Marky, I'd love to find this out. As it turns out, I'll need to redo the whole head (at least that's what the shop tells me) to fix the Vig Head. Personally, I dont plan to spend $1088 on valves again for this stupid head.

So what needs to be changed to fit a B234 into my Viggen with t5 heads attached? Can I continue to use the T7 system with this? I'd prefer not to completely replace my wiring harness.. It seems like something even as simple as a difference in redline could screw things up. Anybody know a shop in RI that could do this?

A used Vig engine (even with my 'connections in the industry') will cost me about $3000 with 66k miles delivered here w/tax. I bet a B234 (since it's on every 9k 2.3 and is at least a bit older than the Viggen motor, and since I can get one as old as a '94, I bet I could get it for a third of the price of the Vig motor...

Ylee: Are you sure about all of that stuff? I know Vig pistons are useless, and I kinda like the idea of thicker valve stems. But the Vig definately has under-piston oil squirters. And SAAB's 'nimonic alloy' valves? Is this tripling of valve prices really worth a rated 5 hp and 6 lb-ft of torque?

Thanks for all of your help guys! I really appreciate it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,534 Posts
Another thought, regarding the T5/T7 aspects of the swap. Not that I have any idea of the answer:roll:

We know one of the big differences between a B234R and B235R is the lighter weight of the 235R as part of Saab’s effort to reduce fuel consumption and emissions etc.

Does the T7 programming take into account this regard, i.e will the Viggen ECU need to have a ‘tuned’ map to take account of the heavier reciprocating bits in a 234 or will the standard T7 Viggen ECU not ‘notice’ the difference.......:confused: :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Using the T7 management system won't be a problem with the T5 engine. The inlet manifold however gave a little problem to swap over. The injectors are mounted up higher, so that they would spray against the cilinder head instead of into it. For this I have made an adapter:

http://users.pandora.be/saabtuning1/images2/divers%20006.jpg

http://users.pandora.be/saabtuning1/images2/divers%20001.jpg

http://users.pandora.be/saabtuning1/images2/divers%20020.jpg

The other small problem I encountered was that the hole for the temp sensor was to small, so you'll need to enlarge this. (M8 --> M10) Since the cilinder head is from a trionc 5, you will lose a bracket or two.

If you can find the oil pan of a 9-3 T5 engine, you can even drop the T7 crankcase ventilation system and make it like it is on T5 engines.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top