[freecirc]

Fellow SAABers,
I just rebuilt my 1989 SPG engine with some great mods for speed and efficiency - a build that was 9 years in the making, and the engine is a thing of beauty, purrs like a kitten mostly, with only a few hours on the clock.

The issue here starts with a "trackmotive" aftermarket front axle set, and the drivers side bearing popping out even before I could get on the main drive coming out of my neighbourhood. It appears that with the driver's side axle in and with all the other components of the hubs installed and tightened, there is a bit more than 5/8 inch amount of movement of the end of the axle in and out of the hub! and.. With the axle nut tightened, the tripod bearing is only about 1/2 way into the cup from the edge (!) whilst looking uderneath. Obviously it is too short. But how? The passenger side appears to go in and has resonable amount of movement, but is fully seated in the middle of the race surface in the driver cup.

I ordered a new set of remanned axles, and they are both a little bit longer than the trakmotives, but still the driver's side is looking the same - about to pop out - tripod bearing only half-way in. I was able to save the the inner driver cup and only minor damage was done last time, but if this happens again, i'm sure I'll have to replace it.

Anyhow, the rebuilt engine was placed atop a rebuilt trans that I had successfully used for maybe 2k miles in my old '87 SPG, so I assume different hubs there compared to my '89, but both were of the vented brake disc variety.

At this point, I am losing my mind and am not sure what is going on. Everything else lines up perfectly in the engine bay, and the driver cups look good too as far as alignment in the engine-bay, but the drivers side axle shaft appears to be too short! I feel like such a noob even after building such a great sounding engine. I still have the olds shafts and the old engine/trans in my shop and the drivers side axles match up in length between old and new with the remanned axles.

HELP is very much appreciated folks!
Where do I start?

Rob
-and-
Ashe: Edwardian Gray 1989 SPG @280k

 

[milos]

There are two versions (different lenghts) of axles/tripods/cups. Try original axles if you have them, aftermarket axles are crap anyway. Newer style axle goes with larger tripod bearing and drive cup.

 

[freecirc]

I have the correct style and the longest length to my knowledge.
The issue is the driver's side half-shaft. The passenger side seats perfectly into the passenger inner driver cup, and feels good in there.
I still have the original Drivers side axle and the Reman driver's side axle (that is not long enough) - and it is the one that is popping out of the driver cup. They are both the same length, end to end! The trackmotive was a bit shorter, and is also too short. This situation is why I am so confused.... It's weird. It's Like the whole engine is shifted toward the passenger side somehow! Even though, visually, it all lines up - shifter shaft works correctly, and all other components look and work great.

 

[freecirc]

I just looked underneath again and found that the space between the frame/body and the outside edge of the drivers side driver cup is a snug index finger width, and I have normally sized fingers. That seems normal to me. I'm still perplexed about this. And looking at the rubber seal for the shifter shaft, it is not pulled too far right, as I thought.

IM absolutely flummoxed by this! And today was supposed to be the big front end alignment and test drive day! :-(

 

[freecirc]

So, after some research it appears that there are two different lengths of axles shafts among new and reman sources currently available. I ordered a reman 1990 (and up) axle for my '89 because it is .43 inches longer at 568mm. Obvs I will have to remove the ABS ring, but since my current OE and reman axles give almost an inch of play, and only enter the driver cup half-way when the axle nut is on and tightened, I am desperate for any more length I can get. God I hope this does the trick. No one seems to have experienced this before or to be able to offer a solution, and I am at my wits end.
-> sob sob sob <-

saab cv axles

1990R: 622-624mm
1990L: 568mm

1989R: 616mm
1989L: 557mm

1985R: 616mm
1985L: 557mm

 

[milos]

Longer axle shafts goes with bigger tripod bearing and newer style inner driver cups, they are not interchangeable. I was in that situation last summer - couldn’t find newer style right side axle so I ended up with old style inner driver/tripod bearing…

 

[jvanabra]

It's been posted elsewhere, but there are four configurations:

1. Early (-~'86) - "short" axles with small tripods
2. Mid 1 (~'86+ - ~-'88) - "short" axles with large tripods
3. Mid 2 (~'88+ - ~-'89) - "long" axles with large tripods
4. Late (~'90+ - ~-'93) - "long" axles with large tripods with ABS

Remember of course that the L and R axle are two different lengths, so there's eight different parts here.

ABS notwithstanding, all the "long" axles are interchangeable. Nothing changed about the car. Saab lengthened the axle to provide deeper engagement on the driver, but did not change the car - motor mounts, drivers, suspension is unchanged.

What Milos mentioned about aftermarket axles is absolutely true. All those aftermarket parts are built from new, and use non-standard diameters and spline counts and joints. It's possible if not likely they got the lengths wrong too.

Tripods do not bottom out in the driver. There needs to be tolerance for suspension compression. If you look here, you see a seriously worn driver which gives you a clue about where the tripod engagement is:

I can't see what you're seeing on the car, but I don't think switching between 2/3/4 is your solution.

 

[milos]

It's been posted elsewhere, but there are four configurations:

1. Early (-~'86) - "short" axles with small tripods
2. Mid 1 (~'86+ - ~-'88) - "short" axles with large tripods
3. Mid 2 (~'88+ - ~-'89) - "long" axles with large tripods
4. Late (~'90+ - ~-'93) - "long" axles with large tripods with ABS

So there are short axles with large tripods… that adds up to confusion. Can’t imagine how they work with later inner driver cups - wouldn’t it be shorter length in total?

 

[freecirc]

Hey Justin, it's been a long time (!) since the so-cal saab club and sabb club of san diego. I hope you are well and your saabs are thriving. I heard you sold your 96 wagon some time ago.

So I am dealing with an '89 SPG here, so obviously the later style axles/cups/etc. As an aside... my first saab, as a late model 8v '86 turbo also had the later style drivetrain hardware, albeit shorter axles.

The inexplicable issue here is that the OEM original driver's side axle that I had in this car before the engine rebuild and the new remanned axle that I bought are both too short somehow now... after I built a kick *** engine and installed a known good trans with an '89- style case (so larger pinion bearing) that I had in my '87 SPG (this is the car that I raced up palomar with y'all a few times about 8-9 years ago). I am flummoxed by this. I am looking for solutions and not coming up with any. Also, I rebuilt the entire front suspension on this car. I suspect the hubs and steering knuckles, but there is no way to rebuild them incorrectly or swap them incorrecltly as far as I can tell. Are there ball joints that thrust the hubs out farther from the body/frame? All 4 are the same manufacturer, as purchased.

Just to clarify... When above I stated: "tripod bearing only enters the driver cup half-way" that meant that the tripod bearing literally is only "in" halfway past the outer edge of the driver cup. So, that means, when looking at the axle and cup engagement from below the car, the tripod bearing is visible and only half of the tripod is NOT visible and in the cup (but not really in-contact with the race surfaces.) I hope that helps.

Also, the passenger side axle assembly fits perfectly in the cup on that side with legit axial movement out to the hub, and seems to sit right in the middle of the inner cup, or stlightly out from center when the car is up in the air. Not bad. So what am I missing with the drivers' side???

 

[jvanabra]

Is it possible you have the motor mounts in backwards? I think that's possible, and it will shift the motor like .5" or so.

I'm in NorCal, but I think I know the person in SD you're talking about.

 

[jvanabra]

So there are short axles with large tripods… that adds up to confusion. Can’t imagine how they work with later inner driver cups - wouldn’t it be shorter length in total?

I don't know whether the small tripod/short axle is the same length as the large tripod/short axle. I don't think they are the same. Therefore, three lengths of axles, two types of tripods, three types of CV.

 

[freecirc]

Aww shucks, I thought I knew who you were. Meh. Oh well. Sorry for the mis-ident. 😅
Hmmmm, motor mounts backwards!!!??? Now, that's a thought. Obvs, the front is staticly centered, and actually, I know I have that one lined up with the indent on the front case properly.
I'll check the other two and post back here shortly.

 

[freecirc]

Well, It's kind hard to put them in backwards, but now I can confirm that both left and right mounts are in properly. Source for fluid mount install info: my old engine sitting in the garage. Source for solid drivers mount install: youtube and other sources online.

 

[milos]

I don't know whether the small tripod/short axle is the same length as the large tripod/short axle. I don't think they are the same. Therefore, three lengths of axles, two types of tripods, three types of CV.

I am not aware of third (inner?) CV joint type - why would they make two types of tripods and 3 types of driver cups

 

[Cornbinder89]

No, he said 2 tripod (inner driver) types.

 

[freecirc]

I am going to potentially pick up a reman 1990 axle assembly today that is .43 inches longer (supposedly) and I am taking my reman shaft with me (that is the exact same length as my OE shaft that I pulled from this car before the rebuild of everything) to compare. I am hoping for a miracle here. Or at the very least, something that gets my brain on course to getting this issue resolved if it's not the shaft somehow/still. HOPE HOPE

 

[freecirc]

So, the Reman that I went to retrieve at O'Reilly's today is exactly the same length as the other reman I already have (but also has an ABS ring) and the OE axle that was working with the previous engine/trans in this car before the rebuild. So, obvs, I did not purchase it.
Humph. I guess I am back to square one.
I have asked a friend to bring his 1990 900S over as soon as possible for a measuring and comparo session. Unless any of y'all have any other ideas, that's where I am at right now.

 

[milos]

No, he said 2 tripod (inner driver) types.

So 3 CVs is referring to outer CV (inner driver is sometimes called inner CV).
Still confusing (for me) why there is third axle length. Two types of tripods and driver cups - which are not interchangeable - that with axle shaft and outer CV gives total axle length (which is same for all 900s?). Where does third axle shaft length fit in? What am I missing?
Not to hijack the thread - it is relatable to subject.

 

[freecirc]

@milos It appears that there are two lengths of Axle shaft, and two different sizes of tripod bearing and two types of inner driver cups to match. I dont think there is a third of anything other than the ABS ring on 1990 - 1993 c900 cars. I was hoping that there was a longer length based on some of my research, but that appears to be incorrect.

 

[milos]

That is what I thought until Jvanabra mentioned third length. Now I must know - I have to be prepared