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Discussion Starter #1
One of my friends is really into making himself out to be the boy. He is proud of his 'in' lifestyle. One of the main ways he shows it is through the cars he buys. When we were younger he always had quick cars and liked to brag that he was the fastest of the boys in town. Since getting a well paid job he has got into more expensive cars, his lastest being a 2.8 Z3. Don't get me wrong though, he's a great lad.

When I got my 900 he scoffed about how it was old and crap, although did conceed that it did have classic qualities and personality.

My question is this... could my old cheap car beat his new expensve car? Obviously not standard, but we reguarly hear about 200+bhp 900s. According to Autodata the 2.8 Z3 is 192bhp. Dunno how much it weighs.

What do you guys think? Could I take him? Off the lights? Point to point? I'd love to see his face. :evil::evil::evil:
 

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Obviously you are referring to racing on a track and not on the public highway, which is illegal and will get this thread locked quicker than a Z3 0-60 time.

I reckon you can do it, but you've got no chance while you are still stock. I've got the same car as you, but with a few mods:
  • MBC with 1.25 bar peak boost
  • Stock 900 Intercooler
  • 2.5 bar FPR
  • Forge dump valve
  • 3mm silicon hoses
  • No cat. Straight through exhaust
  • 205/50/16 Dunlop SP Sport 9000 tyres
  • Heavy duty rear suspension
  • Twin Carlsson tailpipes (makes all the difference ;) )
According to this site, this is how a Z3 will measure up against my car:

Kerb weight:
Z3 = 1302 kg
Aero XLPT = 1310 kg

BHP:
Z3 = 192 BHP
Aero XLPT = 190 BHP

Torque:
Z3 = 203 lb ft @ 3950 rpm
Aero XLPT = 235 lb ft @ 3100 rpm

At times like this I always find it helpful to bear in mind the words of that great man Enzo Ferrari, who said:
Enzo Ferrari said:
BHP sells cars, torque wins races.
So we can clearly see from this highly scientific exercise in Top Trumps that despite a slight weight advantage and two more BHP for the Z3, the Aero XLPT has it where it counts - 32 more pounds per square foot of torque, and coming in earlier too (and holding it, I may add).

Saab 1, BMW 0

:cheesy:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Correction

Jezzadee,

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. Of course, racing should only ever be conducted on a race track. In no way do I condone law breaking :nono;.

Maybe just a spirited pull off from the lights upto the legal limit? :p
 

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Absolutely. :cheesy:

My point is basically that with your stock LPT you have 145 bhp and 190 lbfts of torque, which I really don't think could swing it. But with a few simple mods like mine you could do it, and with a few more mods you could leave him for dust. What I'd do in your situation is not run an MBC but transplant the intercooler and APC system from a full pressure turbo, then tweak the APC as described on www.900aero.com .
 

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Overtaking BMW's

There is'nt much more satisfying (apart from a good dump!!! maybe...and several other things I'm sure!!!) than OT'ing a Beamer, more the look in the drivers face as he realises that the fast lane was'nt built for BMW drivers alone!

No offence intended to anyone out there but I've got more hair than yer average Z3 driver, oh and i'm not in a mid life crisis!!!!!!!:evil: :evil: :evil:
 

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Z3 beat saab on 1/8 mile.. after 1/8 mile saab take lead
 

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no, but i DID beat a new Acura TL A-spec. whooped him good, and was only pulling away as the speeds rose! won by a good 3 carlengths. at that time i was running intake, exhaust, and boost turned up to about 15 psi. fun stuff!:cheesy:
 

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At around 350 bhp for most M3's I don't think I'll bother with one of them for now ;) . Only 260-270 lbs of torque though - not so much in it there.

therealturbofan said:
no, but i DID beat a new Acura TL A-spec. whooped him good, and was only pulling away as the speeds rose! won by a good 3 carlengths.
That's the 3.2 litre, 270 bhp, 238 lbs torque Acura TL A spec, is it? What was it towing? ;)
 

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what, you think i'm blowing hot air up your skirt?!?! let's see... i had a few advantages ;) he had 3 passengers, i was by myself. he was an automatic, i'm a manual. that's it! but i won fair and square, 0 to about... oh.... 75 or 80. and like i said, i was pulling away as the speeds rose. he beat me the first time cuz i spun too hard out of the hole, but the second time i took off with just the perfect amount of wheelspin and took him bigtime by surprise. everybody around here started respecting the saabie a little more after that:cheesy:
 

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That's fair enough - I didn't actually know what an Acura was, since we don't get them here, so I looked up the specs and was a bit surprised.

The highest I've seen and held on my gauge was 1.3 bar, which is 18.8 psi. Bit too much really.
 

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Jezzadee said:
That's fair enough - I didn't actually know what an Acura was, since we don't get them here, so I looked up the specs and was a bit surprised.

The highest I've seen and held on my gauge was 1.3 bar, which is 18.8 psi. Bit too much really.
you're running that much boost and only getting 190 hp? what's up with that? shouldn't you be over 200? is there a place where i can read more about what you've done to reach that level? it sure feels like my car has more than that...:eek:
 

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All my mods are listed earlier in this thread. Bear in mind that my car started life as an LPT, with 145 bhp stock. If I'd had a full turbo and had gained 45 bhp I'd be on 220 bhp in theory. But when putting mods together you can't really look at it in terms of 'intercooler = 10 bhp, de-cat = 5 bhp' and then assume you've gained 15 bhp. That doesn't take into account how mods work together, and how sometimes they can work against each other.

The figure that really matters when driving is not bhp at all, it's torque, and at 235 lb ft I have a lot of torque. I know Abbotted cars putting out over 210 bhp that have less torque than that. My torque is high because I have an MBC, combined with a straight-through exhaust, so no restrictions from having a Cat.

As you can see, my setup is not that efficient - at the last dyno, Rage got 2 bhp more than me running only 10 psi, running a 9000 Intercooler on his. The surprising one was PDA, who got 160 bhp IIRC, and 225 lbs torque. That's on an 8V running about 1 bar boost, and is huge torque compared to bhp. Ideally what I would do is bin the MBC, get in an APC system, full wiring loom from a full turbo, 3 bar FPR, Forge wastegate and Volvo FMIC. Then tweak it all up until I was getting roughly the power I am now. The trouble is, I do regular rolling roads to make sure the car is still running OK, and at each one it is running perfectly, so I keep thinking, why change it?
 

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what's an MBC?;oops:

do you know how much of a load you're putting on your engine just to dyno it? yes, it's useful information, but it's hard on the motor and everything else. my grandpa used to make some wicked motorcycles. when my dad would ask him why he didn't dyno it, he said that it put so much load and wear and tear on the engine that it just wasn't worth it.

seems right to me, all they do is put a big load on the motor...
 

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MBC = Manual Boost Control

do you know how much of a load you're putting on your engine just to dyno it?
Yes. The same amount I put on it when I drive it. Presumably when you took out that Acura you got up to 5000 RPM. That is exactly the same as a professional dyno. You should try one - find out if your engine really is safe or if your car is as powerful as you think.
 

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Race Him!!! If he wins let the air out of his tires and demand a rematch!!

Seriously though, You might be able to take him. Those Z3 are quick but not very fast or speed orientated. Not that the SAAB is. You have a boosted engine, which is always a plus, and can be modified easily. If you keep your car well seriviced and know how to drive it, you might have a shot.
 
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