[mr rx-7 tt]

Some guys on another forum swear by this stuff. It is more efficient than R-12. They said the air was far cooler than R-12 and R-134.

Extremely efficient! Autocool HC 12a is up to 32% more efficient than R-12 and much more efficient than R-134a. This means less wear on your refrigeration system, substantial energy savings and reduced operating costs. With Autocool HC 12a the compressor will only load approximately 2-3 hp.

http://www.autocool-refrigerants.com/index.htm

http://www.autocool-refrigerants.com/product.htm

Anyone tried it?

 

[Matt88S]

There are quite a few substitutes out there. The problem isn't that they don't work, its that most of them are flammable. HC-12a is flammable and therefore is not an Acceptable Substitute according to the EPA’s SNAP program. Incidentally, HC-12a is a identical blend to Duracool 12a, also not considered acceptable for the same reasons, it’s flammable.

Have you thought of using Freeze 12? Its an Acceptable Substitute according to the EPA’s SNAP program and is not flammable. It is also fairly reasonably priced, about $7-$8 a can, only a couple dollars more than R-134a. I recharged my 88 S with it and it worked very well, this was in Oklahoma summer heat around 90-100F. It would chill the car until you had to turn it down or freeze, Saab A/C systems seem to work very well with the appropriate refrigerant in them.

Unfortunately it has a slow leak in the system and about a month later it had all leaked out. I never got around to rebuilding the A/C system, but now as the heat is building back up to the 80's and 90's I am thinking I had better get it going before the heat really hits. If I have some new hoses made, replace the O-rings, and recharge it, and I should be good for several years at least.

 

[mr rx-7 tt]

Hi Matt,
I just recharged with R-134 and it's ok, not really cold even though it was charged professionally and correctly. What is "freeze 12"?

 

[Matt88S]

Its just another R-12 substitute. It suposedly works almost as well as R-12 did and is compatable with R-12 mineral oils and whatnot so you can just add it without flushing out the system like when you change to R-134a. It also operates at pressures similar to R-12, R-134a operates at higher pressures than either one. Freeze 12 is not flammable so the EPA deemed it "aceptable". Whatever that means.
You used to not have to have a license to buy it but now that it seems to be gaining recognition I noticed the local parts stores are requiring you to have a license. I don't know what its like in your area, I think you can still get it online without a license, I don't know though, I've never tried, plus I have a license so I don't have to worry about that anyway. :roll:

Here's a couple links to what the EPA considers "acceptable" and "not acceptable".
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/lists/unaccept.html
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/lists/mvacs.html

We need cdaly's opinion, he used to be in the transport refrigeration field and knows a lot about A/C systems and refrigerants.

 

[john-w]

I just had mine filled with R49 & it's very very cold, replaces R12 without the need to change any componants.

 

[Matthew]

So is the normal R12 refridgerant flammable?

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[cdaly]

We need cdaly's opinion, he used to be in the transport refrigeration field and knows a lot about A/C systems and refrigerants.

No you don't. He left the game just around the time R134a was starting to come in so he's not up to speed with the latest refrigerants.

All I can tell you about flamability is that R12 is not flamable but does produce a pretty damaging "phosgene"(?) gas when exposed to flame. Its non-flamability is the main thing that made it suitable for transport refrig / motor AC given the increased risk of leakage due either to accidents or vibration fatigue.

I don't know how R12 compares with other industrial refrigerants as far as cooling capacity is concerned. There are probably better capacity (inflamable) gasses in use there...

 

[Jezzadee]

but does produce a pretty damaging "phosgene"(?) gas

Pretty damaging? Phosgene is a nerve agent sometimes used as a chemical weapon. You really don't want it anywhere near you.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp

 

[Basre]

Hmmm... in my experiences things that sound 'too good to be true' usually are not.
Reputable AC shops just cringe when you ask them about the R12 'Substitutes'

Having Struggled with My 84 900's AC since the day I bought it new.
I can unequivically say that in my 4 door car the AC is simply inadequate.. to the Heat of the Pacific Northwest.. where it Rains more than Shines.
Mucho effort and $$ expended over several years..to little effect and my Sister owned the Saab dealership at the time.
Lame is a fair description... never could understand claims of 'the AC is good inna Saab'.. cuz it just wasn't true of any Saab I've driven.