SaabCentral Forums banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
out of the blue, my 1999 saab 9-3 wouldn't start. Of course, needle in a haystack time. Gee i wish a book was made for this year saab!

car is a 2.0 turbo, 188,000 miles on the car, 52,000 miles on the engine and turbo. Oil is full, ,check engine light is not displaying, no indicators when SID checks the car, engine cranks and turns, and no fuses are blown. Seems like no spark or no fuel, right? We were on our 2nd DIC (the 1st one just died while driving one day) and the spark plugs are in ok to good condition. I figured it was the DIC again, since the 2nd one was bought off ebay used, so i bought another one used off ebay, and it didnt help. Car still won't start.
So my husband and i futs around and now we are starting to think that the fuel pump might have crapped out on us. when turning the key to the on position, it sounded like the pump was priming, but after futsing around yesterday, it sounds more like what we are hearing is under the hood and not near the tank. so, with no book and not much of an idea on the fuel system (since this is the 1st time with this car thinking it's a prob) can someone tell us where the fuel pump would be located/how to get to it? i know there's no secret opening in the trunk b/c we already yanked out the spare to check.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, please let me know. Is there an oil pressure switch on this car that might of gone? or a fuel pump relay...i know we couldnt find the relay. and our jack just broke, so we couldnt get enough clearance under the car to see if there was a switch. I've never had a car die without throwing a code

oh yeah, i had gotten another SID and it's not the same model that originally came with the car. could an indicator be confussed and not put through when it does the check? I know it randomly tells me i have rear brake light falure, but that's b/c moisture has messed with the wires in the back.

i'm so confussed and agravated! :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,876 Posts
This is very common with high mileage :)

Lift the rear seat. There's a plastic cover close to the pump's location. Bang hard while someone cranks the car.
If it fire up, you know it's the pump so replace it. If not (it doesn't always work), there are a few other things to check.

The CPS (crank position sensor) may be the culperit. It tells the fuel pump when to pump. Unless the pump get the signal from the CPS, it won't fire up.
here's what you need to determine if it's bad
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/NG900SET/CPS/CPS.html

Still unsure if it's bad? Use EW's method
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1028616#post1028616

Here's where to buy a CPS if yours is bad
Bosch
http://www.eeuroparts.com/productdetail.aspx?searchResults=1&code=4688
scantec
http://www.eeuroparts.com/productdetail.aspx?searchResults=1&code=8306

You have a fuel pump relay. The relay has soldering points and the joints crack. That's an easy fix; all you need is a soldering iron or replace if you don't feel it's something you want to tackle

There's a fuse for the pump too. Check it

Lastly. The pump. The best thing to test it is to run a live wire to the pump itself. you have an access cover for the wire hrness under the rear seat. Remove that cap and fish the wires out. Hook up the live wire and see if the car fires up. If it fires up it's not the pump. look further.

If it doesn't replace the pump. The pump from the dealer is too expensive ($450) don't buy that al you need the the fuel pump rebuild unit for $119 not the whole assembly (no need for the plastic housing, you have it)
http://catalog.autohausaz.com/autohausaz/detailw.jsp?sid=y5e3yf55odnmg2451s512y45&partner=autohausaz&year=1999&make=SA&model=9{embeddash}3-SEDAN-001&category=E3001&part=Fuel%20Pump%20Assembly

To install it you have 2 options drop the gas tank or make an access hole under the rear seat.
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91964&highlight=Fuel+Pump+replacement

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61165

I hope this helps :cheesy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,129 Posts
hkayssi said:
This is very common with high mileage :)

Lift the rear seat. There's a plastic cover close to the pump's location. Bang hard while someone cranks the car.
If it fire up, you know it's the pump so replace it. If not (it doesn't always work), there are a few other things to check.

The CPS (crank position sensor) may be the culperit. It tells the fuel pump when to pump. Unless the pump get the signal from the CPS, it won't fire up.
here's what you need to determine if it's bad
http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/NG900SET/CPS/CPS.html

Still unsure if it's bad? Use EW's method
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1028616#post1028616

Here's where to buy a CPS if yours is bad
Bosch
http://www.eeuroparts.com/productdetail.aspx?searchResults=1&code=4688
scantec
http://www.eeuroparts.com/productdetail.aspx?searchResults=1&code=8306

You have a fuel pump relay. The relay has soldering points and the joints crack. That's an easy fix; all you need is a soldering iron or replace if you don't feel it's something you want to tackle

There's a fuse for the pump too. Check it

Lastly. The pump. The best thing to test it is to run a live wire to the pump itself. you have an access cover for the wire hrness under the rear seat. Remove that cap and fish the wires out. Hook up the live wire and see if the car fires up. If it fires up it's not the pump. look further.

If it doesn't replace the pump. The pump from the dealer is too expensive ($450) don't buy that al you need the the fuel pump rebuild unit for $119 not the whole assembly (no need for the plastic housing, you have it)
http://catalog.autohausaz.com/autohausaz/detailw.jsp?sid=y5e3yf55odnmg2451s512y45&partner=autohausaz&year=1999&make=SA&model=9{embeddash}3-SEDAN-001&category=E3001&part=Fuel%20Pump%20Assembly

To install it you have 2 options drop the gas tank or make an access hole under the rear seat.
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91964&highlight=Fuel+Pump+replacement

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61165

I hope this helps :cheesy:

Wow hkayssi, you must have drank a few extra cups of coffee today. I never see you type that much. :cheesy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
blueeyes203 said:
out of the blue, my 1999 saab 9-3 wouldn't start. Of course, needle in a haystack time. Gee i wish a book was made for this year saab!
Do you mean this book?



This book is not much more that coffee table material though....
You will get much more in depth information from Frank_Drebin, hkayssi, and others that have not posted to this paticular problem
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,876 Posts
Frank_Drebin said:
Wow hkayssi, you must have drank a few extra cups of coffee today. I never see you type that much. :cheesy:
Hahaha :lol: Actually that was before I had my coffee :cheesy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,583 Posts
Blue-eyes, you have done well in posting all the details- this is important - even the "meaningless" ones, they do count as well.
Are we in agreement that you have 188K on the fuel pump ? GM's good for the life of the car fuel pump ??
This causes me to feel better - I MAY have another 30K to go.... in which to make the access hole and buy a new pump...

Now, what GM must do is design true self diagnosing components, ones that give a warning that they are on their last legs... I am sure that this is possible with a good degree of effectiveness.. The big rigs, planes and helicopters may have this built-in self diagnostic system(BISDS) already, for them it is economically feasible and, of course, imperative, particularly for the air-craft...

GM should know by now that the Saab automobile is a special , high performance, and high mileage vehicle, that its owners are not "regular joes" but possess above average intelligence and are well educated.....
Chevrolet...... value leader
Pontiac.......... that plus more performance
Oldsmobile...... for the regular joes, or did they disappear as well?
Buick............... "When better cars are built, Buick will build them "
Saab................as above, add a little the Euro mystique
Cadillac.............."Standard of the world"..
GM should return to this old way of doing things, but with a modern twist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks everyone!

wow! thanks for the replies! I really appreciate the detailed post from hkayssi, and of course all the others!
so we think the fuel pump is dead, but before coming to a 100% conclussion, i have a quick question (but i ramble, so it'll be a bit lol)
vbmenu_register("postmenu_1140658", true); I bought a can of starter fluid (50% ethal) and my husband sprayed it into the intake followed by me quickly cranking. the 1st time it didnt work, but the 2nd time my husband sprayed a good 5 seconds, i cranked, and it started till the fluid ran dry.
so it's fuel! we have spark! lol
i think we tried everything you guys suggested
~we pulled up the seats, i cranked, and my husband banged away...nothing.
~we then tried to find the cps, with a result of me practically sitting on the engine b/c it's a pain to get to lol! THIS IS WHERE THE QUESTION COMES IN! i didnt really understand how the description says "Coil Resistance
The resistance of the sensor coil can be measured across connector pins 1 and 2, and should be within about 10% of the nominal value (At 20C temp). Both pins should test "open" to pin 3. If not, the sensor should be replaced. However, resistance is not always proof of a good sensor." what do they mean by "open"? here's what happend:
1 and 2 showed about 1 ohm, 1 and 3 nothing, 2 and 3 nothing. (thanks dad for getting me that tester for xmas a few years back!) so not understanding the results, we gave up till i read a little more into links provided.
~i already had a wire with aligator clips and a 20fuse that i used often for testing my fuel pump on my 3rd gen camaro years back. we used that, hooking to the positive on the battery, pulling the clip off the other end and flatening the wire to touch into 32. i put my head right above where the pump should be and heard nothing.

so does this mean what i think it means? am i making a hole in my saab anytime soon?

my saab is making me sabb :cry:

by the way, eric, yes that book! right after i posted this morning i googled it and they must've just started making that book in the last year b/c they never had it before! even members here said that there wasnt one for the 99 9-3s.
and about gm, it is a little surprising. I've been told that since the merge the engines go quicker, which i could believe. i think the previous owner might not have done routine maint as often as needed (i bought the car with 145k). But as for the other parts, we had to replace the a/c compressor b/c we found the bearings chewed eachother up, and when we investigated, we found the clutch was bad. compressor still worked pretty good, but we got a used whole one pretty cheap to be safe...and shut it up lol! Belt broke and of course the stupid $480 DIC went, which we refuse to pay full price, just like the SID. now the SID has a stupid design...i tore the 1st one apart in attempt to fix...needless to say it's now worthless. another $400something part that shouldnt even cost that much for going so quick

yeah, 188k miles on everything but the belt, ac compres., engine, DIC, SID, and regular maint stuff....not too bad
*viciously knocking on wood*
by the way, the engine w/ turbo only cost me $1750 before the 800-900 install fee (i found the engine and shipped to mechanic) with only 19,000 miles on it...i got lucky on that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
earthworm said:
Now, what GM must do is design true self diagnosing components, ones that give a warning that they are on their last legs... I am sure that this is possible with a good degree of effectiveness..

GM should know by now that the Saab automobile is a special , high performance, and high mileage vehicle, that its owners are not "regular joes" but possess above average intelligence and are well educated.....
what's funny is when i had the new engine put in (hubby was deployed and i couldnt do a swap on my own) the mechanic put the engine in and kept the dic on it that it came with (with new plugs of course) but within 2 weeks it was missing and popping the check engine for "camshaft position failure" which it doesnt have one. i think i got answers from these forums and found out it was the DIC. I called him, and luckily he still had the engine and DIC, so he sent me the one off the original engine. I put that back on and it ran great until about a year later it would randomly misfire and throw that same code. I kid you not, i drove the car with the once a week hiccup/code throw for over a year! then one day when coming into base, i stopped to have my ID checked and as i began to drive away, the car just died. We knew right away it was the DIC, bought one off ebay for $70 with shipping (used) and have now been running with that one for a year or so. Thats why when this happend, we thought it was the DIC again and bought another off ebay...now we might have a spare! b/c it didnt fix the prob!

also my husband and i are pretty much "regular joes" and can't afford a saab mechanic! lol! we came across this saab in august 2004 for $5400 which was almost 1/2 the value, even with the 145k miles. Hell, we can barely aford the parts when they go bad!

oh yeah, i forgot about the flexpipe cracking open...new $120 but we got a nice used one from CA for $45 with shipping.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
If I was you, once I get it running again I would run auto rx treatment through the engine to have a little piece of mind. Did you ever drop the oil pan to check for sludge?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
area51 said:
If I was you, once I get it running again I would run auto rx treatment through the engine to have a little piece of mind. Did you ever drop the oil pan to check for sludge?
i would run some kinda treatment through as well. I didnt drop the oilpan b/c it should be pretty clean. I use synthetic with every 3,000 mile oil change and the engine only has about 52,000 miles on it (which we put in with only 19k on it)

But all i know is that the fuel pump isnt kicking on, and assuming that it's the original pump, it's probably bad. Any other suggestions to test it? it didnt try starting when we banged above in under the backseat, but didnt prime either when 32 was energized.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,293 Posts
The fuel pump can be tested with the engine and ignition off, using a piece of wire, or a test lead, from the positive battery terminal, to the bottom of the fuel pump fuse (after removing the fuse).

The fuel pump will run continuously as long as the wire is connected. With engine off, you can clearly hear it. The fuel goes from the pump through a check valve, through the fuel rail, the fuel pressure regulator, and back to the tank. Simple test, easy to hear with the back seat up, or listening over the engine.

You can also measure the fuel pump current using a multimeter set for amps, in series with the test wire. The pump should draw between 6 and 7 amps, running on 12V battery power. With engine on and alternator running at 14V, a little more.

It only "primes" if the ignition has been off for a while, and then only for a few seconds. Then it will not prime for some time again (the check valve at the pump is supposed to keep the fuel lines pressurized for some time). In other words, the ECM is programmed to prime the pump only when needed, not each time the ignition is switched on.

During a normal start, the pump may prime as ignition is turned on. Then the engine cranks over on the starter. The CPS sends a signal to the ECM, and only then does the ECM turn on the fuel pump. With the test lead, you can take the CPS and ECM out of the loop. If the pump runs, it is probably good, if not, it has failed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
PMI said:
The fuel pump can be tested with the engine and ignition off, using a piece of wire, or a test lead, from the positive battery terminal, to the bottom of the fuel pump fuse (after removing the fuse).

The fuel pump will run continuously as long as the wire is connected. With engine off, you can clearly hear it. The fuel goes from the pump through a check valve, through the fuel rail, the fuel pressure regulator, and back to the tank. Simple test, easy to hear with the back seat up, or listening over the engine
yep, i retried that for the 2nd time tonight and heard nothing...:cry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,293 Posts
If the pump was original at 188K miles, it outlasted mine by a healthy margin. I think mine failed around 110-120K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
well there's always a chance it's been replaced before we bought the car. the 145k on it when we bought it was suppossedly highway mileage (which i could believe with the car being 5 years old when we bought it). but there's probably no way to tell until we pull it out. it'll probably be a week or 2 before we have the time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
so could anyone help with a parts list?

if you've done a pump change before, could you tell me what parts i'm going to need. of course a pump and filter, but what about specific o-rings? I only ask b/c i live in the new orleans area, and surprisingly there is no saab dealer for me to run to if 1/2 way through the job i find i need something. I have to order everything ahead of time, unless i want to drive 2 hours to the nearest.

thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
It kind of depends on if you are going to replace just the pump insert itself (much much cheaper) or the entire assembly. The entire assembly comes with all necessary gaskets and such for the pump unit. You can buy the filter kit with the o-rings that are needed, included. You may or may not want to replace the fuel check valve.

Justin
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top