[luvdonaldduck]

Recently the starter on my 9000 quit. It had been going for a while. And finally quit. I tried to start it and it cranked but didn't start. I tried again and then as it was cranking it just stopped. NOTHING. I tried to start it again and there wasn't even a click.
So I hired someone to install a used starter. When he was done,, nothing.
So my usual guy was available and installed a new refurb starter. (he has done almost all the work on my car and knows it well). When it was all installed, we tried to start it and NOTHING.
He has tried everything he can think of. (including making sure that there is voltage at the starter). So as he was installing it, he noticed that the Neutral safety switch was not connected to the transmission. He wasn't sure if that was keeping the starter from working or if when they battery was disconnected that the system went into lock down. So I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to where to look. (we haven't gotten a new switch yet and considered bypassing it to see if that was the issue, but then he wasn't positive about how to bypass since that's not his strong suit). Thanks for any input.

 

[davide c]

Often 'nursing' a should have been replaced Long ago starter.. Will damage the Ignition switch.
Fit a fresh one?

 

[luvdonaldduck]

thank you, I'll pass that on

 

[schumi]

you can test starters out of the car using a spare battery or some jumper wires. lots of videos on youtube. I would guess yours are fine. While starter is in car you can use a remote starter switch ($10 at auto parts stores) or jumper wires to get power directly to the solenoid (make sure car is in neutral or park with parking brake on) and if it spins that tells you the problem is not the starter but rather the circuit from the ignition switch to the solenoid. yes the neutral safety switch or clutch switch is one reason it wouldn't start.

 

[90000006]

Can you turn the engine over by hand?

 

[luvdonaldduck]

still not starting

2nd UPDATE: had the battery tested and charged,,, still not turning over. No idea where to go from here....


UPDATE: So we replaced the ignition switch and still won't start. We are getting voltage to the starter and we can hear the relays clicking but still won't start or even try to turn over. The battery is apparently not putting enough voltage out (I think he said 10 volts or less)Any other suggestions are appreciated


Recently the starter on my 9000 quit. It had been going for a while. And finally quit. I tried to start it and it cranked but didn't start. I tried again and then as it was cranking it just stopped. NOTHING. I tried to start it again and there wasn't even a click.
So I hired someone to install a used starter. When he was done,, nothing.
So my usual guy was availale and installed a new refurb starter. (he has done almost all the work on my car and knows it well). When it was all installed, we tried to start it and NOTHING.
He has tried everything he can think of. (including making sure that there is voltage at the starter). So as he was installing it, he noticed that the Neutral safety switch was not connected to the transmission. He wasn't sure if that was keeping the starter from working or if when they battery was disconnected that the system went into lock down. So I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to where to look. (we haven't gotten a new switch yet and considered bypassing it to see if that was the issue, but then he wasn't positive about how to bypass since that's not his strong suit). Thanks for any input.[/QUOTE]

 

[schumi]

if the battery is not putting enough voltage out then you are wasting time and money replacing other parts. 10 volts is not enough to start any car. that is dead.

UPDATE: So we replaced the ignition switch and still won't start. We are getting voltage to the starter and we can hear the relays clicking but still won't start or even try to turn over. The battery is apparently not putting enough voltage out (I think he said 10 volts or less)Any other suggestions are appreciated


Recently the starter on my 9000 quit. It had been going for a while. And finally quit. I tried to start it and it cranked but didn't start. I tried again and then as it was cranking it just stopped. NOTHING. I tried to start it again and there wasn't even a click.
So I hired someone to install a used starter. When he was done,, nothing.
So my usual guy was availale and installed a new refurb starter. (he has done almost all the work on my car and knows it well). When it was all installed, we tried to start it and NOTHING.
He has tried everything he can think of. (including making sure that there is voltage at the starter). So as he was installing it, he noticed that the Neutral safety switch was not connected to the transmission. He wasn't sure if that was keeping the starter from working or if when they battery was disconnected that the system went into lock down. So I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to where to look. (we haven't gotten a new switch yet and considered bypassing it to see if that was the issue, but then he wasn't positive about how to bypass since that's not his strong suit). Thanks for any input.

[/QUOTE]

 

[scantar]

if the battery is not putting enough voltage out then you are wasting time and money replacing other parts. 10 volts is not enough to start any car. that is dead.

x2 Loosen, clean and re-tighten all connections battery > starter; battery > ground. Failing that, try a new battery.

 

[davide c]

Even easier try Jump starting the thing using cables from another car/battery
IF that works.. yer off to the Battery store

 

[scantar]

Even easier try Jump starting the thing using cables from another car/battery
IF that works.. yer off to the Battery store

Bad connection trumps jump starts every time

 

[Superaero]

if the battery is not putting enough voltage out then you are wasting time and money replacing other parts. 10 volts is not enough to start any car. that is dead.

[/QUOTE]

Correct. Battery MUST show 12v before you crank. Not because 12v is a magic number but because anything less than 12v even for a tired battery means one it more cells are dead.

Hint: it's called a battery because it is a battery of 6 cells each contributing 2v. If you get only 10 v before you load it up then one cell is dead.

 

[N.E. Swede]

Check the big round harness connector plug at the bulkhead for corrosion

 

[luvdonaldduck]

not starting

So we pretty much have exhausted all ideas. New starter, new ignition switch, battery fully charged.. when we turn the key you can hear the relays clicking, but absolutely NOTHING. not even a tiny bit of turn over happening. The only thing we can think of now is to add a switch that will be direct. still need the key, but will be a push button to turn it over. If anyone has any other ideas before we take this step I would appreciate it. Thanks

 

[aerojon]

for crying out loud the battery is shot.. replace it..

 

[luvdonaldduck]

Just to respond to your comment,,,, for crying out loud,,,, Guess you missed the fact that I had the battery load tested and charged... and it came back as good.

 

[scantar]

Well, just reading back through the thread, this smacked me in the gob "he noticed that the Neutral safety switch was not connected to the transmission. He wasn't sure if that was keeping the starter from working"

2 things...a faulty NSS will absolutely shut down the starter circuit. That's one. The other - and this is just a personal observation - is I'm wondering how a mechanic wouldn't have known that?

 

[aerojon]

Just to respond to your comment,,,, for crying out loud,,,, Guess you missed the fact that I had the battery load tested and charged... and it came back as good.

Not at 10v it isn't

 

[90000006]

If you are sure the engine is not jammed stuck, measure voltage drop over the wiring during a start attempt. Measure between negative battery terminal and engine. And between positive battery terminal and the bolt connection on the starter. Anything above a few hunderd mV is bad. Not uncommon on a 9000 for the connection between the cable and the lugs to become corroded internally. Isolation that shows signs of overheating is a tell-tale indicator.

If that is ok measure voltage directly on the battery terminals during starting. If it drops below 10V, replace it. If in that case your mechanic still insists the battery is fine, consider replacing him as well.

 

[sp53]

I feel your pain and hear yea. If you look at my ford solenoid post, I am trying to fix the same problem, and I think those guys that added the solenoid basically did what you are taking about by putting in a shorter path for the cranking system, so yes please keep me posted. I just finish a paint job and now will look closer at mine.
One thing you might check is that the starter is not lose or dirty oily on the bell house because that is where the starter motor gets it ground. Plus you might have a bad connection on the solenoid that is on the starter or solenoid itself is shot or is not getting enough current for reasons like 006 said. I am going to look closer at my problem and report back. Hang in there electrical stuff can mystify until the problem shows itself. Have you tried jumping the car with another car that has a strong battery? The starter motor will pull all that it is designed to pull and then see if the started gets hot.

 

[chengny]

UPDATE: So we replaced the ignition switch and still won't start. We are getting voltage to the starter and we can hear the relays clicking but still won't start or even try to turn over. The battery is apparently not putting enough voltage out (I think he said 10 volts or less)Any other suggestions are appreciated

A couple of thoughts:

1. If your battery shows 12+ volts across the terminal posts, but the voltage at the starter is only 10 - replace the positive cable. They can appear to be in great condition when only inspected from the outside, but the copper conductors inside the insulation may be in poor condition.

2. Also, don't forget about the other side of the circuit (i.e. the ground path back to the battery negative). Check the big cable that runs from the bolt -above the transmission mount - up to the battery post.



There are two leads to the starter/solenoid assembly. One is a big red one that connects to the battery positive and is always hot. The other one, is a little thin yellow lead that only sees voltage when the ignition switch is in the START position. That is the control side of the system. Without 12 volts on that wire, you can have all the voltage in the world on the big red cable but the starter motor will never crank.




Depending on the model year involved (and which version of anti-theft system you have), there may be 2-3 components required to get power from the ignition switch and out to terminal 50 on the solenoid. Also the gear shift interlock is in that circuit.

Try running a temporary jumper directly from the battery positive to the 50 terminal on the solenoid. Doing just that quick, simple test will tell you a lot about what the problem is. If the starter cranks, the yellow lead is the problem. If it still doesn't crank, look closely at both the battery cables.