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For the record: M1 0W-40 no longer meets the SAAB "long life" specification.. not like it matters much since we're all out of warranty here. Appearently the formulation was changed. It's still a great oil but I've noticed it burns off faster.. personally, I'm looking at Castrol now. Lotta research. Dang.
 

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What years did the sludging stop being a problem? Was it because of an engine design change?
Several things changed along the lines to solve the sludge problem.

  • The PCV design changed numerous times, the current one for the B235's prior to 2004 is PCV update #6. I've never been convinced that the PCV was the real culprit for sludge but certainly was a culprit for complaints of oil leaks on the front main seal over the years. It may have had something to do with the sludge since moisture in the crankcase can cause sludge but I think the others were more a problem. The 2004 and newer engines have a completely redesigned PCV system with new plumbing, a new throttle body with an additional vacuum port and a hole in the back of the block for the oil can drain. This obviously can't be refit to a pre-04 block but the post 04 engines can be put into older cars.
  • Saab had a very long oil change interval in the early cars, IIRC it was over 10K miles. This was unrealistic due to the other issues as the oil would not last that long, this was subsequently shortened.
  • Saab did also not recommend synthetic oil until the 2003 model year (my 02 Aero did not have that recommendation my 03 did)
  • They changed the oil pickup screen from the B235 to B235 to a finer grid. Some believe that this made it easier for the pump to suck up sludge and squish it keeping it from getting too bad.
  • The design of the oil pan with the second catalytic converter RIGHT UNDER the pan didn't help as the oil would get quite hot and cook in the pan.
So in ~2004 PCV update #6 came out, the new PCV on new cars came out, the recommendation for synthetic was out and the oil change interval was lowered. Obviously they had little ability to change the routing of the exhaust at that point and the oil pickup screen was not changed. But the other changes did in fact solve the problem.

But I can say that both my 99 LPT sedan and my 03 Aero sedan that both had synthetic oil in them with 5K change intervals and had never had the updated PCV. when I finally got around to dropping the pans in both cars there was no sludge, no real build up and even the small layer of gunk in the bottom of the pan was pretty easy to clean out. I did the PCV update at the same time.
 

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If anyone's interested Dexos2 is the new specification that supersedes the SAAB LL whatever specification. Pennzoil platinum euro and Castrol 0w-40 meet it, while Mobil1 0W-40 does not anymore. Not sure why, and it stinks since I've always been a Mobil1 fan. I was just shopping for oil again and the new bottles I saw dont even mention SAAB anymore. Sigh.
 

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Guys I'm gonna ask a stupid question about oil. I have always used 0W-40 full synthetic oil in my Saab (I alternate between Mobil1 and Castrol depending on price). I thought it would be good to change the oil in both my cars before our COVID-19 "shelter in place" takes effect tonight at midnight. (I'm in Minnesota.)

I went to Oreilly's because it's close and convenient, but all they had was 5W-40 full synthetic. I bought it because I didn't feel like going anywhere else. My assumption is, now that we are coming out of the coldest months here, the 0W vs. 5W is not a big deal. Am I correct?

I realize this may be overthinking it, but I just wanted to be sure.
I love me the wisdom...lol

Several Decades Ago, I Switched From Low-Fat Milk To Skim Milk. We Know More About The Health Benefits Now. The Same Is True Of Motor Oil.
These types of changes can be made in steps, like going from 2% butter fat to 1% and then to skim.
Buy your car a nice “blend” oil (part dinosaur / part synthetic) and see how it likes it (keep looking underneath for signs of incontinence). If all is well then make the next oil change full synthetic.
You can always go back to dinosaur oil, but I don’t know why you’d want to do it. I’m never going back to 1% or lowfat milk.
As you have noticed we are in transition right now, moving from old fashioned oil to modern oil and the price difference is decreasing all the time. Your Toyota is a car senior citizen, born in the last century. However, I think it’s a good time for you to come up to the 21st century. I say go for it
 

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Well I've found a great oil that seems to be the best 40 weight one can get for euro cars these days. It's made by a company named Rowe; whom does the factory fills for pretty much everyone in EU. Cool.
I've done a lot of research on bitog, and they linked over to a russian and german forum where I guess they go nuts over this stuff.. its been showing the best anti-wear numbers (for tuned BMW'S, Porches, MB etc..) on used oil analyses.
Meets all manufacturer specifications, API SN. Anx they they still meet BMW'S LL-01 which always exceeded GM's.. It's that good I suppose. Not sure why Mobil had to go and suck on their best oil but I'm not having it in my B235R anymore. Piston soak, top end cleaning and refill.
From now in I'll be switching between Penzoil Platinum+ 5W-40 (the alleged "Ferrari" Stuff lol.. that's a lie) and Rowe Hightec Synth RS 0W-40 and their 5W-40 (more additives). Who ever has the better sale I'll be ordering.
 

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Quite a few brands say they meet all those specifications, including some house brands in my local Canadian Tire.

Now, if people have more detailed specs, that's a different thing.

It doesn't say if that Rowe oil is ACEA A3/B3/B4 anywhere?
 

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It's on the bottle on the picture on autohauz. A3/B4. The purple bottles, I'm not sure about.

And your right, there are a lot of brands that say that they're recommended for the different manufacturer specifications, but very few actually pay for that testing to be done. And they are factory fill for euros big 3..
As far as I know Rowe has paid for that testing the only one that they "recommended for" and haven't had tested officially for is FIAT, who has a license with Pennzoil.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
I love me the wisdom...lol

Several Decades Ago, I Switched From Low-Fat Milk To Skim Milk. We Know More About The Health Benefits Now. The Same Is True Of Motor Oil.
These types of changes can be made in steps, like going from 2% butter fat to 1% and then to skim.
Buy your car a nice “blend” oil (part dinosaur / part synthetic) and see how it likes it (keep looking underneath for signs of incontinence). If all is well then make the next oil change full synthetic.
You can always go back to dinosaur oil, but I don’t know why you’d want to do it. I’m never going back to 1% or lowfat milk.
As you have noticed we are in transition right now, moving from old fashioned oil to modern oil and the price difference is decreasing all the time. Your Toyota is a car senior citizen, born in the last century. However, I think it’s a good time for you to come up to the 21st century. I say go for it
I don’t know if this was meant to be sarcastic or what, but I don’t really get the point you’re trying to make. What’s all this about skim milk, dino oils, and my Toyota? You lost me.
 

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I don’t know if this was meant to be sarcastic or what, but I don’t really get the point you’re trying to make. What’s all this about skim milk, dino oils, and my Toyota? You lost me.
He/she joined almost two years ago and that is the single post they decided to make?

Odd.
.
 

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The kicker is there's not very many true fully synthetic oils in North America..All the Motul stuff isn't, Mobil1 isn't, Castrol isn't, the list is bigger then people would think. Amsoil is I think.. liquimoly isn't even! Oil companies get away with murder over here. They use a mixture of dino base stocks and add synthetic additives and other "stuff" from what I've learned. The crazy part is the blended stuff usually outperforms the full synthetic products.. or it used to.. not sure. Either way, the point is a company can put full synthetic on the bottle and it doesn't have to be. Oil tech has gotten so good it even conventional oil can go for 5k depending on the application its used in. Lowfat milk is juuuust fine.
 

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agree with Bob3000 and andy. Ignore it. On the subject of synthetics and non synthetics. It comes down to base stocks. The base stocks are either refined crude or full synthetic. whatever the base stocks, there are complex synthetic packages that go into the formulation of motor oil and that's a very specific business. The days of pure engine oil with no synthetic packages have been gone for many decades. There used to be just two companies, Paramins and Lubrizol that supplied synthetic packages, but these two companies changed ownership and were acquired by Shell and Exxon mobil if I recall correctly. Google it for more information.

I think Andy made the right call, so thats the end of the thread as far as I am concerned. Whether you use dexos 2 ( I buy that in bulk for most 5w30 application customer cars) or Mobil 1 0W40 from Walmart ( I use that in my Saab exclusively) changed at reasonable intervals ( time or mileage based; a lot more than 5000 km and at least every six months - like spring and fall if you don't put on big miles) you will be just fine. Based on what I know. I started using multigrades in high school, (late 60's). Although, (full disclosure) I did use single weight 40W Castrol R in my racing Minis, which had the transmission in the oil sump, but I grew out of racing Minis in 1970) . Castrol were "pioneers" back then, but Castrol really are like Valvoline and others, just packagers and marketers of products made by the multinational conglomerates to order....Shell and Exxon Mobil among the largest
 

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The kicker is there's not very many true fully synthetic oils in North America..All the Motul stuff isn't, Mobil1 isn't, Castrol isn't, the list is bigger then people would think.
What's a "true fully synthetic oil"?

Are they lying when they put A3/B3/B4 on the jugs? I have various brands of North American oils with the ACEA ratings right on them. What more qualifications are there?

And Amsoil, I'm not going there.
 

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What's a "true fully synthetic oil"?

Are they lying when they put A3/B3/B4 on the jugs? I have various brands of North American oils with the ACEA ratings right on them. What more qualifications are there?

And Amsoil, I'm not going there.
all oils have now have a synthetic component. "regular" oils (BITD crude oil refined base stocks with no synthetic additives, no longer made or sold) are now considered "crude oil base stocks with synthetic additive packs" and "full" synthetic oils have "synthetic base stocks with synthetic additive packs". All oils are formulated to specific SAE certification criteria, read it on the label.

Couple of things you should know. Both 5W30 and 0W40 (European formula) Mobil 1 are on sale at Canadian Walmarts for 29.95 a jug!!! Canadian dollars!!!. For all you USA Saabistes, that means you should be finding a way to buy it in Canada. ( call EdT?) US dollar is 1.40 Canadian. Canada's hopeless ( my words) PM Trugrope's liberal administration is doing well plundering our economy, while the US dollar is STRONG!!!
 

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I didn't know ROWE made oils, but our shop switched to all ROWE coolants about two years ago and they've been fantastic. Prices are fair too.
 

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The kicker is there's not very many true fully synthetic oils in North America..All the Motul stuff isn't, Mobil1 isn't, Castrol isn't, the list is bigger then people would think. Amsoil is I think.. liquimoly isn't even! Oil companies get away with murder over here. They use a mixture of dino base stocks and add synthetic additives and other "stuff" from what I've learned. The crazy part is the blended stuff usually outperforms the full synthetic products.. or it used to.. not sure. Either way, the point is a company can put full synthetic on the bottle and it doesn't have to be. Oil tech has gotten so good it even conventional oil can go for 5k depending on the application its used in. Lowfat milk is juuuust fine.
Incorrect post
 

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You articulated it much better than I, but, I was attempting (poorly perhaps) to say the same thing. Everything's mixed. Very few companies sell a real full syn (base + add pack). I don't know much though.
I've been under the impression though that the only country that requires proper labeling is Germany. Which is liqui moly and the rest have totally different packaging. I may be off on a few companies...

That's interesting Kamikazi, I had no idea they made coolant! Looks like they have their hands in almost everything nowadays.
 
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