[Oddball-CmK]

Hi All,

Just picked up a 2003 Saab 9-3 2.0 turbo not too long ago. Was running fine for a little while but recently upon a warm start the engine (whole car) will vibrate rather violently - even stalled out once after 5-10 seconds of rough idling. I can usually turn the car off and back on again almost immediately and the problem temporarily corrects itself, until the next time it starts to acts up. The engine malfunction light will come on and off when the car decides to do this and usually not long after I lose power, especially on inclines; on a 25-30 degree incline you can have the pedal to the floor and it barely crawls up the hill. I also noticed the fuel economy seems to have decreased significantly from a car that used to get good fuel mileage.

I haven't had the car checked with a computer yet (I'm afraid to

). Any ideas? Could I be lucky enough to have a really dirty air filter? I can try to provide more specific detail if necessary... any advice/comments/suggestions welcomed...

Thanks,
Cordell

 

[Pace]

Why not have it scanned first? Then come to us with codes, questions, etc. Otherwise you get the typical questions: How old is the battery? When was the car last serviced (plugs, coils, etc)? Tried unplugging the MAF, CPS, etc...?

It coul be something simple. Or it could be something worse. Diagnosing online is a lot easier with a concrete starting point [eg. codes].

 

[Diggs]

Go to any parts store and borrow their scanner. Report back with code, should be PXXXX

 

[Oddball-CmK]

Why not have it scanned first? Then come to us with codes, questions, etc. Otherwise you get the typical questions: How old is the battery? When was the car last serviced (plugs, coils, etc)? Tried unplugging the MAF, CPS, etc...?

It coul be something simple. Or it could be something worse. Diagnosing online is a lot easier with a concrete starting point [eg. codes].

Hmmm.. okay, looks like I'll attempt to get the codes if possible; that would simplify things quite a bit. I entirely overlooked what Diggs suggested, I'll try to stop at Advanced Auto Parts tomorrow and borrow their scanner...

Thanks guys, I'll report back as soon as possible with any codes.

 

[Oddball-CmK]

Sorry for the late response; however I finally managed to stop by Advanced Auto Parts and borrow their scanner.

I got the following 3 codes:

P0300
Random - Multiple Misfire Detected CONFIRMED

P0636
Throttle Actuator Control Range / Performance (Bank 1) CONFIRMED

P0638
Throttle Actuator Control Range / Performance (Bank 1) PENDING

Can anyone elaborate on these? What needs to be done and what's going on here and how much is it going to hurt? ;oops:

 

[TunnanXWD]

The usual demons that lurk here are the throttle body, MAF, and or the coil packs.

But you just "picked it up" so was it from a private seller, discount dealer or other?

Seems like you don't have a clue on the maintenance history of the car and you don't even say how many miles are on it?

I would start by pulling a plug, the newer plugs get way more than the old change them at 5,000 but who knows how long they have been in there or if ever changed.

Throttle body and such will cause the car to go into limp mode and it will develop almost "0" power.

Coil packs will cause the car to shudder. It sounds like it probably has more than one issue and needs someone who knows Saabs to determine where to start. There are 4 of these coils atop each plug and they go for around $150 each and are a common problem.

How many miles and what did you pay for this? The other problems with the 03's were around the coils of the suspension.

 

[Oddball-CmK]

You would be correct assuming I don't know much at all about the maintenance history of this vehicle. I'm only aware that a new alternator and oxy sensor were recently installed along with a new windshield (irrelevant) and the oil has been changed every 8,000 miles (or so I was told).

I bought the car from a private seller for $2,500 and it has relatively high miles, 166k. I was aware at time of purchase that I would need new tires soon... but everything else appeared to work fine when I went for a test ride and it passed emissions fine... ~150-250 miles later... all this began to occur, happened almost immediately after I went through emissions.. which was probably just a lucky coincidence...

Is there a way I can check the coil packs with a multimeter? Where should I start?

 

[TunnanXWD]

Brian of Vtuner detected my slowly failing coil when he plugged in his lap top. I would wait and/or start a post on detecting failing coils. Did you pull a plug?

There have been comments that the glaze on the top of the coil will show cracking but my mech changed the two hard ones and to me they look about the same with tiny hairline cracks.

 

[Oddball-CmK]

I have not had a chance to pull a plug yet; is it relatively routine or anything I should watch for? ... I'm all too new to Saabs...

 

[Oddball-CmK]

Update:

I pulled each plugged today for a physical inspection. To me, they appear to be burning as they should. Might be time for a new set soon, but they don't look too bad... in my opinion. This would also indicate the coil packs are fine, too, right? I did not notice any visual damage with the coil pack (no cracking on the glaze, etc.). However, I did not check them with a multimeter.

Something that scared me though, is that plugs 3 & 4 were way over-torqued and plug 4 was drowning in oil [both ends]. Plug 3 had a little oil, too... but not nearly as bad as plug 4 (pictures below).

After messing with the plugs and putting them back in, I took her out for a little test drive and now it seems she has poor acceleration all the time, primarily in 1st gear it appears. Before, if it didn't start idling rough, I would still have plenty of power.

I was playing with it in manual mode and the RPM would generally go up fine as I press down the accelerator, but it didn't want to move.

She is definitely a gas guzzler, too. I'm lucky if I'm getting 10 Mpg...

Hope this makes some sense....

Coils:


Plug 1:


Plug 2:


Plug 3:


Plug 4:

 

[timfountain]

That doesn't look good. You might be tracking multiple issues here. Oil on the outside of #4 could be the head gasket. Oil in the cylinder could be a lot of things, worn valve guides, worn piston rings, crack in head or cylinder liner wear. Time for a compression test. I'm also going to go with bad or going bad oil packs and an oil leak. Check you MAF and throttle body.... Also check all your hoses.
A cheap '03 with a lot of miles is never going to be cheap!

 

[visari]

the oil on the spark plugs might looks like a valve cover gasket. it happened to me in the same cylinder and it looked exactly the same, the gasket kit is about $25 from rockauto. it is pretty easy to do. when it happened to me i also got a random misfire code and after i changed the gasket the code went away, so hopefully if you are lucky that will solve your misfire code. this is what you need http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2650370&cc=1417979
the pat that fails is the spark plug tube seals this set comes with everything you will need.

 

[Oddball-CmK]

My initial response was since plugs 4 was near the oil filling spout, maybe someone spilled oil over plug 4 and neglected to clean it thoroughly... although I fear I'm being too hopeful.

It was suppose to have had a recent oil change before I purchased the car, and there is a sticker on the windshield from Advanced Auto Parts letting me know when my next oil change should be. However, the SID is telling me my oil is at 8% with 299 days to go. Yet, when I manually check it with the stick, it's showing 'max'... Not sure what to make of that...

What makes you say going bad coil packs? I'm not doubting it... just curious and want to know more... the car seems to handle fine under load... once it gets there....

Is there anything in particular I should look for on the MAF or TB?

Visari,
That's good to know... for ~ $25.00 it might be worth a shot before I start sweating blown rings, worn valve guides or other major problems. Is there details anywhere on how to install it? I'm still going to try to do a compression test... but not sure when I'll actually be able to get around to it (hopefully the car will still be running by then).

 

[dzlsabe]

Yeah Id make sure to clean and gap the plugs .9 -1mm. Change that valve cover gasket. Any vibrations at around 1500-2K rpm that sound like exhaust or motor mount??? could be broken balance chain tensioner guide causing balance shafts to get out of alignment. Have seen a few of these and as these motors age, theres bound to be more. These engines should be smooth and quiet at idle.

 

[Oddball-CmK]

No vibration at 1.5k - 2k... not really any vibrations at high RPMs. I only get the vibrations randomly when it will occasionally start with a really rough idle. After shutting it down and restarting it, it'll smooth right out and idles pretty quiet at a little under 1k RPM. Although, after the restart, there would be a significant lack of power... which has turned into a more common thing now (at least since I checked the coils/plugs) I've had a severe lack of power... especially in lower gears/ acceleration.

 

[Oddball-CmK]

Hello All,

I'm back . I've replaced my valve cover gasket and tube seals (special thanks to Visari) along with installing 4 new plugs. I also installed an aux-in kit from Etadyne Industries LLC, but that's rather irrelevant. However, I haven't yet had a chance to see if that has helped to alleviate the problem. A day after replacing the valve cover gasket, tube seals, and spark plugs, I was faced with a dead battery. Went on a hunt and was finally able to location a Maxx H6 from Wal-Mart. Figured maybe I'd be set for a while now. NOPE. The next day, I ended up getting stranded... car got me there fine, however, when I came out several hours later and tried to start it... it would start for the first couple attempts, but only idle at 500 rpm and was rather rough for a little while. The accelerator pedal had no response. I could put the pedal to the floor and it had no effect what-so-ever. After several restart attempts, it failed to even start at all, it would turn over fine... sputter for a second and die. I abandoned the car for a couple days and retrieved it later via a friend with AAA. AAA sent out a mechanic who was able to get it started by simply applying a little pressure to the accelerator pedal and turning the key.

I was able to get the car home from this point, but I believe it is in 'limp home mode.' Can anyone please explain exactly what limp home mode is to me? I've done a considerable amount of research on it and only come up with a vague "definition." Once I managed to get the car home, I checked the fuel pressure at the fuel rail by simply depressing the needle on the valve with a screw-driver and I don't think I'm getting sufficient fuel pressure. I was not able to get a precise reading, as apparently you need a special fuel pressure gauge for Saabs? What should the fuel pressure at the rail be for a '03 Saab 9-3? If there a way to manually get a 2003 Saab 9-3 out of 'limp-home mode,' to see how it would react? I've tried disconnecting the battery for ~30 minutes to no avail. As for the problem, what could be the culprit? I'm suspecting fuel pump....yes, no, maybe?

Also, special shout-out to Timfountain who was 100% on the money with, "A cheap '03 with a lot of miles is never going to be cheap!" Lesson learned here, never trust an insurance agent... :lol: