DMF with Cobalt Clutch [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: DMF with Cobalt Clutch


fwdfelon
17th January 2015, 02:01 AM
I know there are a million clutch threads out there but I need clarification before I buy. Since the smfs are harder to acquire than a unicorn I need to find a new flywheel when I have my clutch done. This leaves me with aluminum or going the stock dmf route. I plan on going with the LSJ upgraded clutch kit but I am not sure if this works with the stock LUK flywheel. There inlies my question.
Thanks in advance

ceebee
18th January 2015, 10:21 AM
Option #1: Use LSJ upgrade clutch kit with a solid flywheel of your choice ( most likely a Fidanza or Spec)

Option #2: If you want to use the OEM style DMF, you have to go with a heavier pressure plate ( available from Clutchnet) and an unsprung clutch plate.

qwikredline
18th January 2015, 10:48 AM
There is an OEM flywheel single mass which is posted up on here somewhere. The cobalt GMPP upgrade clutch is originally a saab clutch. There is also a member on here that says he used the GMPP on a dmf flywheel unless I am mistaken. I have no saab knowledge in this regard.

Sachs have a web site and as far as I know the replacement performance sachs clutch lands in the USA for about 500 dollars, again this is information from this site posted by members. I would go with sachs any day. Most of the aftermarket suppliers buy Sachs or LUK and then dismantle them and shim the pressure plate. Which often leads to issues

fwdfelon
18th January 2015, 11:07 AM
Ive already purchased the lsj kit. It has a saab friction disc with an upgraded pressure plate that will hold my power. The euro single disc hasnt been in production for 3 years now so thats out of the question. I will keep looking into sachs and maybe return the lsj kit

qwikredline
18th January 2015, 11:55 AM
Ive already purchased the lsj kit. It has a saab friction disc with an upgraded pressure plate that will hold my power. The euro single disc hasnt been in production for 3 years now so thats out of the question. I will keep looking into sachs and maybe return the lsj kit

If you can confirm the member who used that all good the GMPP is unbeatable value complete with CSC TOB The DMF ,
if all the clearances are good, will not care if the disc is sprung or unsprung afaik

tour96se
20th January 2015, 04:48 PM
viva sells an aluminum smf for the saab 9-3 with options for stock style clutch or aftermarket
http://www.vivaperformance.com/single-mass-aluminum-flywheel-saab-9-3/

99subigt
7th March 2015, 10:06 PM
It has to be a 2005 euro 1.9liter turbo diesel flywheel, if you are planning to use the cobalt ss SC upgrade clutch

Pace
9th March 2015, 12:24 AM
I feel like this subject has been beaten to death. And yet, there is still a lot of incorrect information regarding it.

I don't know where the idea came from that the solid flywheel came from a EU 2005 1.8t diesel. As jumbled as the DMF to SMF thread is, it states different part numbers between diesel and petrol solid flywheels. Several parts sites also list it as an EU <06 Petrol 1.8t/2.0t part.

And while the correct part may be backordered by standard means, that doesn't mean it isn't possible to obtain. You just have to think outside the US warehouse stock box.

There are 3 available here if anyone really wants one: http://www.bildelsbasen.se/se-sv/Saab/SAAB-9_3-VER2/2003_2007/V%C3%A4xell%C3%A5da-&-Drivaxel-&-Mellanaxel/Sv%C3%A4nghjul-Manuell/Alla/

99subigt
9th March 2015, 12:20 PM
Well lots of us have been following this whole thing about what clutches and what kind of flywheels are interchangeable. Just like now it's 2015 newcomers are asking back then in 2012 we had the same questions. The fact that doing a clutch for doing our Saab can run up to $1500, www.saabcentral.com
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227025#/forumsite/21020/topics/216785?page=7 this is the link of where someone decided to actually start playing with the part. N we give thanks to this person who has done it and used his car as a guinea pig. So when u r asking who makes or what parts fit, go by this link. I've been following this for years even though I just became a member not too long ago and I have posted a topic asking for those people who have done it what the outcome is. I'm just waiting for replies.

99subigt
9th March 2015, 12:23 PM
Sorry once again I'm doing this on my phone so sorry for typos and grammar

qwikredline
10th March 2015, 07:33 AM
If you can confirm the member who used that all good the GMPP is unbeatable value complete with CSC TOB The DMF ,
if all the clearances are good, will not care if the disc is sprung or unsprung afaik

Smh.
GMPP is a SAAB sachs clutch

Pace
10th March 2015, 10:29 AM
Well lots of us have been following this whole thing about what clutches and what kind of flywheels are interchangeable. Just like now it's 2015 newcomers are asking back then in 2012 we had the same questions. The fact that doing a clutch for doing our Saab can run up to $1500, www.saabcentral.com
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227025#/forumsite/21020/topics/216785?page=7 this is the link of where someone decided to actually start playing with the part. N we give thanks to this person who has done it and used his car as a guinea pig. So when u r asking who makes or what parts fit, go by this link. I've been following this for years even though I just became a member not too long ago and I have posted a topic asking for those people who have done it what the outcome is. I'm just waiting for replies.

Maybe I should have worded my response more carefully. :confused:

I have the solid mass flywheel. It's currently sitting with some other parts til the day my clutch needs to be changed.

I'm not asking for part numbers or what fits what - I'm telling you what it is from. The solid flywheel that BadBrains fitted and recommended for 5-speed guys in this thread (https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216785) is not from a 2005 European 1.8/1.9t diesel. It is from European petrol B207E (1.8t/2.0t) cars through around MY06 - most likely the "Linear" models referenced in numerous other posts and threads as the original application.

It would be unfortunate for someone to buy what they think is the correct flywheel based off of incorrect information spread throughout the forum. I'm only trying to reduce the risk of that and asking that you check your facts before posting.

On the same hand, I would recommend anyone using this information do the same research before buying an imported or secondhand flywheel. There are two solid flywheel part numbers listed for the correct application, so you would want to be sure to get the right one.

99subigt
10th March 2015, 11:13 AM
Pace you are good, you didn't say anything wrong, I'm in the same boat, my flywheel is sitting in my storage so when the clutch fails I can use it, I have the one from the diesel and like you just post it, it would suck if someone else buys the wrong part, I was just saying cause it seems that now some of the parts are discontinued and people are trying new parts, so I posted the original post with the right parts, and I new what you meant pace... maybe it was me that needed to reword what I said.

z0fo
28th March 2015, 09:09 PM
Oh well I'm going with the ViVA Performance Single Mass Aluminum Flywheel with 8mm dowel pins that you could ask when you order and that are recommended for the Ecotec LSJ Clutch Upgrade kit 19212712, since the pressure plate holes are 8mm, SPEC and FIDANZA only come with 6mm dowel pins, not a smart way to go, a lot people done it! more props to them but I'm sure not going that rout. and guess what? the European Single Mass flywheel's out there if you could ever get hold of new one comes with 6mms dowel pins. if you know anything about mechanics you need to be precise if you want the best results. then again you could come back at me and say but all I need to go back to machine shop and get 8mm dowel pins for those flywheel!!! go head and try it then when u run your vehicle for over 8000 miles on that set up, let me know!

qwikredline
29th March 2015, 07:15 AM
That's funny. "Not a smart way to go ". I have been using the upgrade LSJ cltuch , which is a saab clutch anyway, with smaller dowels, since 2004. With care it doesn't matter. Far less smart in my view, is using a lighter flywheel made in aluminium. The lighter mass at the flywheel requires a different front damper (I favor ATI) otherwise the timing chain set will wear out much quicker and it's an issue already with guides and bolts breaking. Etc.

Good luck

z0fo
29th March 2015, 08:29 PM
So in other words you running dmf with lsj? both set up are sprung!
very interesting! so I guess single mass aluminum flywheel are useless? unless you install ATI. Front crank damper?
wow that means fidanza ,spec, and the rest aluminum flywheels companies are ripping us off!! sheesh just like the tobacco company back in the days when they never told us that cigarets will cuz cancer!
oh by the way what are you comments about this post? I believe you never had one. thank you for your help... https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216785
oh yeah and one last remark!!

There's no such thing as luck. Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.

qwikredline
29th March 2015, 10:13 PM
So in other words you running dmf with lsj? both set up are sprung!
very interesting! so I guess single mass aluminum flywheel are useless? unless you install ATI. Front crank damper?
wow that means fidanza ,spec, and the rest aluminum flywheels companies are ripping us off!! sheesh just like the tobacco company back in the days when they never told us that cigarets will cuz cancer!
oh by the way what are you comments about this post? I believe you never had one. thank you for your help... https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216785
oh yeah and one last remark!!

There's no such thing as luck. Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.
I've been racing most of my life. I was hired by GM to build race Cobalts in 2004. These cars used a ton of SAAB configured conponents. I worked on development of these cars with F35 trans and various clutch and flywheel combinations. I worked with GM powertrain and built a time attack Cobalt for GM that driven by John Heinricy, set records that lasted a number of years.

I have tested various flywheel and clutch combinations over many yearsm and every light alloy flywheel we tried led to failures. The conclusion is that the weight savings do not provide benefits plotted against reliability.

I also provide service to customers. Every customer I have had dealings with, who ran an alloy flywheel was not happy and changed back to steel.

DMF are very heavy. When we built racing Cadillac CTS V for GM in 2003/4 we tossed the DMF right away. But we used steel not aluminum flywheels.

I dont care what you do, but the question was asked in the OP.

I gave you an answer , that from my point of view, ( note there is nothing wrong with replacing the DMF with a steel flywheel and a "cobalt" (its a SAAB ) clutch. ) BUT I said I would not use aluminum flywheel at all, or a lighter mass flywheel WITHOUT an ATI front damper.

Google ATI and Dinan... enjoy

z0fo
29th March 2015, 10:55 PM
Ok I guess I will be the guinea pig for this, I'll let you know what happens! Mr Mechanical Engineer! I mean if there was solid flywheel out there most likely I would have gone with one but since there is none unless I use a dmf, witch im not going do!!! on a sprung clutch!.. so lets see what happen money is not factor here! OEM dmf is 300 dollars, Viva performance Single Mass Aluminum Flywheel $417 dollars inclunding shipping. I got nothing better todo with my money and I'm just lil Surgical Tech barely making ends meet! here in US!...lolz

RionMan
17th April 2015, 04:30 AM
I've been racing most of my life. I was hired by GM to build race Cobalts in 2004. These cars used a ton of SAAB configured conponents. I worked on development of these cars with F35 trans and various clutch and flywheel combinations. I worked with GM powertrain and built a time attack Cobalt for GM that driven by John Heinricy, set records that lasted a number of years.

I have tested various flywheel and clutch combinations over many yearsm and every light alloy flywheel we tried led to failures. The conclusion is that the weight savings do not provide benefits plotted against reliability.

I also provide service to customers. Every customer I have had dealings with, who ran an alloy flywheel was not happy and changed back to steel.

DMF are very heavy. When we built racing Cadillac CTS V for GM in 2003/4 we tossed the DMF right away. But we used steel not aluminum flywheels.

I dont care what you do, but the question was asked in the OP.

I gave you an answer , that from my point of view, ( note there is nothing wrong with replacing the DMF with a steel flywheel and a "cobalt" (its a SAAB ) clutch. ) BUT I said I would not use aluminum flywheel at all, or a lighter mass flywheel WITHOUT an ATI front damper.

Google ATI and Dinan... enjoy
qwikredline, what clutch and flywheel setup would you say is the most optimum for a stage 3 9-3 (let's say less than 300 bhp, 320tq)?

Swededemon
17th April 2015, 04:17 PM
qwikredline, what clutch and flywheel setup would you say is the most optimum for a stage 3 9-3 (let's say less than 300 bhp, 320tq)?


What transmission do you have?

RionMan
17th April 2015, 06:43 PM
What transmission do you have?

I have the F35 5-speed 2004 9-3 linear. It's an ecotec and the same transmission so I would assume it would work...

OurARC
20th April 2015, 08:32 AM
Oh well I'm going with the ViVA Performance Single Mass Aluminum Flywheel with 8mm dowel pins that you could ask when you order and that are recommended for the Ecotec LSJ Clutch Upgrade kit 19212712, since the pressure plate holes are 8mm, SPEC and FIDANZA only come with 6mm dowel pins, not a smart way to go, a lot people done it! more props to them but I'm sure not going that rout. and guess what? the European Single Mass flywheel's out there if you could ever get hold of new one comes with 6mms dowel pins. if you know anything about mechanics you need to be precise if you want the best results. then again you could come back at me and say but all I need to go back to machine shop and get 8mm dowel pins for those flywheel!!! go head and try it then when u run your vehicle for over 8000 miles on that set up, let me know!

You know the viva flywheel is spec right?

OurARC
20th April 2015, 08:39 AM
That's funny. "Not a smart way to go ". I have been using the upgrade LSJ cltuch , which is a saab clutch anyway, with smaller dowels, since 2004. With care it doesn't matter. Far less smart in my view, is using a lighter flywheel made in aluminium. The lighter mass at the flywheel requires a different front damper (I favor ATI) otherwise the timing chain set will wear out much quicker and it's an issue already with guides and bolts breaking. Etc.

Good luck

Completely false, you dont need to change pulleys at all..... ive been running spec st3 and billet flywheel for a couple years now with absolutely no problems. (Apart from the immense rattling from the gearbox [f40] because theres ALWAYS an output shaft idling on the diff {2 output shafts})

SovangW
1st May 2015, 04:15 PM
you're telling me the lsj and spec clutch is a bad way to go? f35

qwikredline
1st May 2015, 09:02 PM
The OP is OEM cobalt clutch installed with a DMF saab flywheel. I have no clue.
The OEM sachs saab clutch for Lsj also 207 with single mass flywheel is an excellent buy and a very good clutch

The spec stuff has issues. OEM does not. The sachs GMPP SAAB based clutch sells for under300 dollars complete with disc centering tool , CSC clutch pipe etc. From crate engine depot.com. Heck of a deal and lasts forever. I use and recommend this clutch. I have 80,000 miles on my LSJ clutch is excellent.

I can't speak to the DMF deal. But I have machined a DMF flywheel successfully using a flexplate out of an auto trans as a fixture tool.

As for light flywheels tearing up timing chains, GM Powertrain found that in their testing and advised against light flywheels for that reason. I don't care much if posters on here have not encounterd that issue yet, but if you want to call me out as making a false statement come up with some evidence. My evidence is direction to me from GM in 2004/5, and the subsequent removal of light flywheels from all our race cobalts,part of a contracted program I ran for GM BITD.

End of that silly storm in a teacup.