The absense of the manual-trans neutral switch

[earthworm]

Tboy and I am having this arguement on the 900 ng forum. http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=90478
I am seeking opinions as to why Saab has omitted this manual transmission neutral safety switch(which IMO, is un-necessary.

[Cuba]

Alright folks your time starts.......now.

Tboy
earthworm
Saab

Who, is the weakest link?

[900t]

The heck is a manual transmission neutral switch? I've never seen one. Lots of cars however have a clutch interlock switch so you have to press the clutch. Saab wisely didn't put it so you can start the car with it in gear and the clutch released. This is useful in certain situations. For example if you are in a Jeep or something, and you are going sideways on a steep mountain and have lost headway. Make a quick shift to reverse and crank the engine with the clit released so you don't tip sideways and can control the vehicle speed with the throttle. OK in a Saab it's hard to make it tip just from being on a hill

[Cuba]

Originally Posted by 900t

Make a quick shift to reverse and crank the engine with the clit released so you don't tip sideways

Indeed

[ragtopcav]

With the what released?

[900t]

Hey we've all been there... take her out to the scenic areas at night then uninvited guests appear and a quick exit is necessary!

[Matt88S]

Was it possibly because of the reverse lock?

N saftey switches are a handy thing by the way. To make a long story short, I was trying out a key in blue and accidentally started it with me standing outside the car with one knee on the seat. It dragged me half outside the car for about 100' feet, I missed the vert by a few inches, a few feet over to the left I would have been crushed inbetween the door and blue when blues door hit the vert. That would have been mildly painful.

I finally pulled myself in the car and hit the clutch and shut her down.

I rather like N saftey switches.

[Willy Wonka]

IMHO - they are superfluous.
My toyota panel truck has an interlock on the clutch. I hate the damn thing.
What gives them the right to impose, how I should start the truck?

They are right though, if I'm stupid enough to buy a toyota, I need help starting it. They really are right, I'm to busy to rewire it.

[Tboy]

Originally Posted by Willy Wonka

IMHO - they are superfluous.
My toyota panel truck has an interlock on the clutch. I hate the damn thing.
What gives them the right to impose, how I should start the truck?

They are right though, if I'm stupid enough to buy a toyota, I need help starting it. They really are right, I'm to busy to rewire it.

I'm sure glad I saw this here, its good to know when I'm in an argument. Argument seems harsh, just differing opinions.

My opinion is that a neutral interlock SHOULD have been included with the reverse lock mechanism. I don't know the exact reason saab chose to force you to have the car in gear to take the key out, but they did. (I don't like it personally).

But my argument is, if you forced the car into gear at shutoff, it will also be in gear when the person goes to start it up, it only makes sense (to me) to ensure the driver doesn't inadvertently drive off upon startup.

When my wife started driving my manual trans car (a chevy cavalier) I took great comfort that it DID have a neutral interlock switch. I knew that at LEAST that wasn't going to happen to her.

I do like to start the car without getting in. Indeed, I tried a few times to push in the clutch by hand while working on my cavalier (didn't work). I like being able to lean in a start the Saab now, especially on a cold morning.

BUT>>>> I just don't see why Saab would have combined the reverse lock and NO neutral safety switch. It just doesent make sense to me.

And to Willy quoted above, what gives Saab the right to decide what gear I'll be in when I shut off the car!?
Tboy

[Tboy]

Originally Posted by 900t

The heck is a manual transmission neutral switch? I've never seen one. Lots of cars however have a clutch interlock switch so you have to press the clutch. Saab wisely didn't put it so you can start the car with it in gear and the clutch released. This is useful in certain situations. For example if you are in a Jeep or something, and you are going sideways on a steep mountain and have lost headway. Make a quick shift to reverse and crank the engine with the clit released so you don't tip sideways and can control the vehicle speed with the throttle. OK in a Saab it's hard to make it tip just from being on a hill

When I was a kid the clutch cable in my dads mustang went out, and he drove it to the shop without using the clutch (I could do this in my old cavalier, but not the saab) and started the car in gear. At a stop light he would just kill it, and then when it turned green, just fired it up in first.

I always wondered about my cavalier what I would do in the same situation since I had the neutral interlock, but realized it wouldn't matter, since the switch is on the pedal itself. If the clutch did go (it was hydraulic anyway) I could still press the pedal down, it might not disengage (like in my dads mustang), but I could still do the same.

Tboy

[900t]

The advantage for reverse lock is that if the car is hotwired, it can't be driven forwards.

[TheRedBaron]

Originally Posted by Tboy

my cavalier

Are you talking about your GM900?



Sorry, I had too...

But seriously, especially on the c900 and older (with no syncromesh on R) the R gear with its high ratio makes for a good gear to lock the box on as a parking break sort of thing (like P on an auto) so that the car doesn't roll if the e-brake effs up.

On a completely unrelated note, typing syncromesh reminds me of a story. My mom's old friend had this ancient ford (I think it was a ford, but it was definitely really ancient). Anyway, he got a ticket for rolling through a stopsign, which he claims he didn't do. So he contests the ticket, and his proof is: my car has no syncromesh, therefore it would be impossible for me to just roll through a stopsign at low speed, ergo this ticket is perposterous!!!

[ragtopcav]

Originally Posted by Tboy

My opinion is that a neutral interlock SHOULD have been included with the reverse lock mechanism. I don't know the exact reason saab chose to force you to have the car in gear to take the key out, but they did. (I don't like it personally).

These days it is more of a gimmick; but its roots are set in safety feature, there's nothing scarier than the steering lock engaging on its own [rearly rare now, but more common 2-3 decades ago] Saab used to have column ignition but they were column shift I believe and the lock was on the gears - not the steering; floor ignition with a gearlock is just the logical progression of that. Obviously locking in a gear is a physical immobiliser. Locking in nuetral would be like fishing without a hook. Now why not have the gear lock in a forward or reverse - and the driver decide perhaps?

As for having cars with a clutch pedal starter inhibitor reflects more on the poor level of driver training of any country that tries to insist on such a thing.

[Chris 9-5]

All this is of course true, with the exception of the false bits, but we must consider the effect of the vehicle's colour on the situation...................now yellow.......phew thats another thread entirely!

[Cuba]

Yellow.....yellow...yellow..starts to sound weird. yellow...yellow yellow...yellow yellow...yellow yellow...yellow.

Right then, I'm off to bed.

[Chris 9-5]

Its 10.30 am here........................I dont get this global time thing

[mikewitdaspike]

Originally Posted by 900t

Make a quick shift to reverse and crank the engine with the clit released so you don't tip sideways

where i come from that could have a very different meaning

Originally Posted by Matt88S

Was it possibly because of the reverse lock?

N saftey switches are a handy thing by the way. To make a long story short, I was trying out a key in blue and accidentally started it with me standing outside the car with one knee on the seat. It dragged me half outside the car for about 100' feet, I missed the vert by a few inches, a few feet over to the left I would have been crushed inbetween the door and blue when blues door hit the vert. That would have been mildly painful.

I finally pulled myself in the car and hit the clutch and shut her down.

I rather like N saftey switches.

haha, i don't have to worry about that with my car, it'd jump outta reverse too fast

EDIT: besides, the fact that you don't have to have the clutch in when you start saved my car (somewhat) when my clutch master cylinder failed completely, i still had to get to school, and there were a few stops on the way there

[900t]

Originally Posted by ragtopcav

These days it is more of a gimmick; but its roots are set in safety feature, there's nothing scarier than the steering lock engaging on its own [rearly rare now, but more common 2-3 decades ago]

I doubt it... I've heard of scenarios with drunk kids pulling the key out and locking the steering while driving and causing an accident, but never the system just locking on it's own.

[mikewitdaspike]

Originally Posted by 900t

The advantage for reverse lock is that if the car is hotwired, it can't be driven forwards.

... actually, that worked AGAINST me when i had to hotwire mine i ended up breaking it though, unintentionally

[Willy Wonka]

The real problem with the interlock is that it's inconvenient. That's the truth!

I find it's much better to have the option, rather than a locked in sequence.
The dictator ship of machines.