Cold starting with gel / undersized racing batteries - SaabCentral Forums
*
Home Saab Pictures Saab Classifieds Saab Dealer Listings Saab Forum Saab Forum


Go Back   SaabCentral Forums > Saab C900, 1979-1993 & '94 Convertible (C=classic) > C900 Workshop

C900 Workshop Classic 900 (1979-1993 & '94 Convertible) Technical Forum.

SaabCentral.com is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3rd November 2006
nbell's Avatar
nbell nbell is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004                                                
Location: New Forest, Hampshire
My Saabs: 93 Ruby
Posts: 694
Default Cold starting with gel / undersized racing batteries

I use a smaller than standard battery in my car as explained here. This has worked well all year but I notice it does not like the cold mornings...has not let me down yet but sounded quite sluggish trying to start this frosty morning. I wonder if it might fail if it gets much colder. I know a few people on here have these Optima / Odyssey / Red Top types of battery, would like to hear your cold starting experiences.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 3rd November 2006
Albert Trout's Avatar
Albert Trout Albert Trout is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005                                                
Location: Glasgow
My Saabs: Ehh....none
Posts: 2,996
Default

My Red-Top's been going great guns, no difference from the summer, and it's been Baltic here all week, but I don't think that's what you want to here Nick....
__________________
MMmmmmmm. Juicy Fruit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 3rd November 2006
nbell's Avatar
nbell nbell is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004                                                
Location: New Forest, Hampshire
My Saabs: 93 Ruby
Posts: 694
Default

Cheers Graham. On the contrary, I want to know if this mod was wise or not Gauge indicated about 5 degrees here (11am) when I started the car. So yours turns over as normal in the same sort of frosty temps? Hmmm, maybe something else is unhappy then...

Did you sell your Saab gauges ok?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 3rd November 2006
philb's Avatar
philb philb is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005                                                
Location: Kildare, Ireland
My Saabs: '91 900 T16S on Megasquirt2/Extra
Posts: 2,901
Default

Was it just the sound that was sluggish, or the speed that it turned over? Reason I ask is that the starters make a lot more noise when they are on the way out, maybe the cold mornings have triggered that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 3rd November 2006
nbell's Avatar
nbell nbell is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004                                                
Location: New Forest, Hampshire
My Saabs: 93 Ruby
Posts: 694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by philb
Was it just the sound that was sluggish, or the speed that it turned over?
!?! You kinda confused me on that one Phil It sounds just like it might if the battery was v low. Which its not.
A slow couple of cranks before it starts. As in a wuuh (tiny pause)-wuuh (tiny pause)-BROOM rather than the normal instant br-BROOM.

Apologies for sound effects
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 3rd November 2006
unkleG'sif's Avatar
unkleG'sif unkleG'sif is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2004                                                
Location: Liverpool, UK
My Saabs: 1993 T16 (xLPT) - 1994 RUBY!!!
Posts: 3,470
Default

could be that the alternator, voltage regulator or brushes are gettin tired.... if its not charging the battery properly, then there will be less power to crank the engine (esp when cold and the oil is like treacle )

get a voltmeter across the battery and see if it has 12v.. also from alt to earthing point?

interesting this, as a slim battery is one of my future mods

G
__________________
"we can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universe[s,] to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act" - Charles Darwin


http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/Gs-little-Saab
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 3rd November 2006
nbell's Avatar
nbell nbell is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004                                                
Location: New Forest, Hampshire
My Saabs: 93 Ruby
Posts: 694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drg23
could be that the alternator, voltage regulator or brushes are gettin tired.... if its not charging the battery properly, then there will be less power to crank the engine (esp when cold and the oil is like treacle )

get a voltmeter across the battery and see if it has 12v.. also from alt to earthing point?

interesting this, as a slim battery is one of my future mods

G
I think its charging the battery ok, the voltmeter reads about 13v as always. When I take these measurements, the car should be off and cold? I can do that tomorrow morning. Cheers G.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 3rd November 2006
Matthew's Avatar
Matthew Matthew is offline
Saab Mad
 
Join Date: Dec 2001                                                
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
My Saabs: 900 S Aero Turbo, 9-5 Aero
Posts: 14,069
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by philb
starters make a lot more noise when they are on the way out
Interesting. Could you describe the sound?

My new 900 sometimes makes a strange sound when I'm starting it and I'd like to know what the problem is.
__________________
The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 3rd November 2006
nbell's Avatar
nbell nbell is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004                                                
Location: New Forest, Hampshire
My Saabs: 93 Ruby
Posts: 694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
My new 900 sometimes makes a strange sound when I'm starting it
Grrrrr woof woof! perhaps Matthew?

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 3rd November 2006
Albert Trout's Avatar
Albert Trout Albert Trout is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005                                                
Location: Glasgow
My Saabs: Ehh....none
Posts: 2,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbell
Cheers Graham. On the contrary, I want to know if this mod was wise or not Gauge indicated about 5 degrees here (11am) when I started the car. So yours turns over as normal in the same sort of frosty temps? Hmmm, maybe something else is unhappy then...

Did you sell your Saab gauges ok?
Aye. Knew I'd forgotten to check on something when I took them out. Sorry about that

I've had to de-ice the car last 3 mornings. Also I managed to leave the ignition on all night (don't ask) about a month ago and had to recharge it, so I'd reckon yours should be in a better state than mine.
__________________
MMmmmmmm. Juicy Fruit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 3rd November 2006
unkleG'sif's Avatar
unkleG'sif unkleG'sif is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2004                                                
Location: Liverpool, UK
My Saabs: 1993 T16 (xLPT) - 1994 RUBY!!!
Posts: 3,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbell
I think its charging the battery ok, the voltmeter reads about 13v as always. When I take these measurements, the car should be off and cold? I can do that tomorrow morning. Cheers G.
from alt to earth, i think the ign should be on, but not running... doesnt matter if cold or not i dont think,

maybe you should compare the cranking specs of your battery, to the requirements of a stock one, and those of Alberts, as he seems to be not having the same problems

G
__________________
"we can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universe[s,] to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act" - Charles Darwin


http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/Gs-little-Saab
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 3rd November 2006
nbell's Avatar
nbell nbell is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004                                                
Location: New Forest, Hampshire
My Saabs: 93 Ruby
Posts: 694
Default

Cheers G. I will check that. My battery did provide the same crank amps as the standard one, I checked that before purchase. The reserve is rather lower though ;

PC 680MJ Specs:
  • 680 cranking amps for 5 seconds
  • 595 cranking amps for 10 seconds
  • 525 cranking amps for 20 seconds
  • Short circuit current over 1800A
  • 17 amp hours
  • 25 minute reserve capacity with 25amp load
  • Female brass terminal w/M6 SS bolt
  • With metal jacket
  • Length 7.27"
  • Width 3.12"
  • Height 7.42"
  • Weight 15.4 lb
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 3rd November 2006
Albert Trout's Avatar
Albert Trout Albert Trout is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005                                                
Location: Glasgow
My Saabs: Ehh....none
Posts: 2,996
Default

Cranking amps and almost everything else is pretty much identical to mine. My Varley actually has 16 amp hours to your 17, so I reckon you can rule the battery out, unless it was defective when you bought it.
__________________
MMmmmmmm. Juicy Fruit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 3rd November 2006
nbell's Avatar
nbell nbell is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004                                                
Location: New Forest, Hampshire
My Saabs: 93 Ruby
Posts: 694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Trout
Cranking amps and almost everything else is pretty much identical to mine. My Varley actually has 16 amp hours to your 17, so I reckon you can rule the battery out, unless it was defective when you bought it.
Awwwww C O C K Its been working great all year. Something else then maybe - will get the voltmeter out tomorrow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 3rd November 2006
Matthew's Avatar
Matthew Matthew is offline
Saab Mad
 
Join Date: Dec 2001                                                
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
My Saabs: 900 S Aero Turbo, 9-5 Aero
Posts: 14,069
Default

Surely a bad battery is still favourite for bad starting on cold mornings? Classic symptom?

Maybe this is just a symptom of a different problem. If the battery's not being charged properly, then it'll suffer in cold temperatures. Time to test the charging system!
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=61973
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=62108

Going to move this to the C900 Workshop, as the problem will get better explosure there.
__________________
The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #16  
Old 3rd November 2006
philb's Avatar
philb philb is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2005                                                
Location: Kildare, Ireland
My Saabs: '91 900 T16S on Megasquirt2/Extra
Posts: 2,901
Default

Sorry about the confusion Nick, it does sound like your engine is turning over slower than normal. Could still be the starters fault though, getting older and drawing too many amps. Matthew - I've sold the lpt, which sounded like that, but it basically sounded like a tractor when cranking, smooth once it fired.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #17  
Old 3rd November 2006
nbell's Avatar
nbell nbell is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2004                                                
Location: New Forest, Hampshire
My Saabs: 93 Ruby
Posts: 694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
the problem will get better explosure there.

Freudian slip Matthew? Memories of a battery that went BANG! perhaps
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18  
Old 3rd November 2006
jetman jetman is offline
Saab on the Brain!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002                                                
Location: Guelph Canada
My Saabs: 1984 T8
Posts: 6,945
Default

I have had several bad cold morning start problems. Batteries were fine. Positive cable to starter was not!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19  
Old 3rd November 2006
Si's Avatar
Si Si is offline
Saab on the Brain!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003                                                
Location: 5225′34″N 00152′19″W
My Saabs: Sensonic NG900T, a gagle of rusty c900's
Posts: 5,975
Default

Do you park your car facing the direction of the wind?

The last place i lived at had a very windy alley, if my mate parked his car facing the direction of the wind for some reason every morning the battery would be dead or nearly completely discharged, was fine the rest of the year, only happened when the temp dropped below about 10 degree's.

If you want to do a cheap test, pop the bonnet and tuck a blanket in over the grill/front bumper, see if it's any different/starts better the next day.
__________________
Psytuned 1997 900 Sensonic coupe turbo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20  
Old 3rd November 2006
Matthew's Avatar
Matthew Matthew is offline
Saab Mad
 
Join Date: Dec 2001                                                
Location: Gloucestershire, UK
My Saabs: 900 S Aero Turbo, 9-5 Aero
Posts: 14,069
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbell
Freudian slip Matthew? Memories of a battery that went BANG! perhaps
Ha ha Must be a Freudian slip
__________________
The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd

Last edited by Matthew; 3rd November 2006 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Freudian typo d'oh
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SaabCentral Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:51 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

top of page | sitemap | email us



copyright © 2003 - 2011 saabcentral.com, All rights reserved http://www.whiter.co.uk - valid xhtml - valid css
SaabCentral is an independently run website and is not affiliated in any way to Saab Automobile AB.


Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.