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NG900 & OG9-3 Performance, Mods & Tuning Covers Tuning & Performance modifications for the NG900 (1994 to 1998) & OG9-3 (1999-2002) & '03 Convertible

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  #1  
Old 17th October 2006
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ferkle ferkle is offline
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Default Gearboxen

Right then... I am having thoughts and they might be some of the most silly thoughts on the planet, so bear with me....

Can't remember where, but somewhere on this forum i read that the designation for the 5 speed manual 'box is F25 - which is one of the designations that Vauxhall use - another GM stable, would I be correct in saying that this designation is due to both boxes being the same unit?

First silly question over.

Next one, if this is the same unit, and hypothetically speaking I were to be in the market due to need or want to change my tranny (obviously with our trannies being so bulletproof we never need to make these considerations ) would I be able to drop the (significantly cheaper to get hold of) Vauxhall F25 in, or if i were feeling adventurous, the 6 speed F28 box should the ratios be suitable - subject to calculating etc.

Just a thought, not a plan. Although I have come to like this GM thing, I have found a few bits and bobs out there that are cheaper because they dont have Saab stamped on them....

I figure this is a performance question because if the latter idea works out well, it would surprise me if a bunch of 6 speed 900s didn't turn up if the ratios worked out for either/or better acceleration/top speed.

Something to think about there. (and it will get those pesky vauxhall tuners back, they apparently steal all our parts from what i hear!!)
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  #2  
Old 17th October 2006
t_buck09 t_buck09 is offline
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if it fits, that would be cool, strap that to a 3.0
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  #3  
Old 17th October 2006
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yup, Well it should go straight on the 2.5 as it is the same engine/box and i beleive the 3 litre is the same bottom end with different bores.


I am hoping to see if anyone knows about the 2 litre turbo.... I am looking at specs etc.
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Old 17th October 2006
jonny72888 jonny72888 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferkle
yup, Well it should go straight on the 2.5 as it is the same engine/box and i beleive the 3 litre is the same bottom end with different bores.


I am hoping to see if anyone knows about the 2 litre turbo.... I am looking at specs etc.
i would sell my right arm for a 6 speed tranny for my car... but then i would need to get a new car and move out of the states (right hand drive cars for all of you who didnt get my lame joke)
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Old 17th October 2006
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F25 tranny in a Vauxhall was supplied to them from Saab.

The gearbox in theory could be made to go one way or the other, the Vectra F23 could go to yes? and in theory so could the 6 speed F28 [a seriously tough bit of kit from Getrag] also.

So what you'll then need to fork out on is getting Trionic to accept the Vauxhall final drive ratios [5 speed] or the 6th gear's existence. So some way around boost control and limp home mode is required - good quality MBC or a trick ECU re-write. If you had a V6 it would be simple plug 'n' play
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  #6  
Old 17th October 2006
saab_family saab_family is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtopcav

the 6 speed F28 [a seriously tough bit of kit from Getrag] also.

are you saying its a tough tranny? i know supra tt's use them and are tough as nails.
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  #7  
Old 18th October 2006
Sirhc Sirhc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferkle
Right then... I am having thoughts and they might be some of the most silly thoughts on the planet, so bear with me....

Can't remember where, but somewhere on this forum i read that the designation for the 5 speed manual 'box is F25 - which is one of the designations that Vauxhall use - another GM stable, would I be correct in saying that this designation is due to both boxes being the same unit?

First silly question over.

Next one, if this is the same unit, and hypothetically speaking I were to be in the market due to need or want to change my tranny (obviously with our trannies being so bulletproof we never need to make these considerations ) would I be able to drop the (significantly cheaper to get hold of) Vauxhall F25 in, or if i were feeling adventurous, the 6 speed F28 box should the ratios be suitable - subject to calculating etc.

Just a thought, not a plan. Although I have come to like this GM thing, I have found a few bits and bobs out there that are cheaper because they dont have Saab stamped on them....

I figure this is a performance question because if the latter idea works out well, it would surprise me if a bunch of 6 speed 900s didn't turn up if the ratios worked out for either/or better acceleration/top speed.

Something to think about there. (and it will get those pesky vauxhall tuners back, they apparently steal all our parts from what i hear!!)
You can use any tranny if you use an adapter plate to mate the engine and tranny together.
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  #8  
Old 18th October 2006
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hunt.dogshome hunt.dogshome is offline
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A definitive answer would be nice. The inner driveshaft joints are very different on Saab turbos. Don't know about the splines.

Gearbox No3 is showing signs and making noises.

So if it's a bolt on job with no strange adaptor plates, cut driveshafts, odd clutches, different clutch releases and cables, engine mount, special linkages, equal length driveshafts and bearing. etc. etc. Then I'm very soon in the market for one.

There's a few things that they may have changed..........................

[Wasn't deliberately sarky, just sort of turned out that way ]
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Old 18th October 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunt.dogshome
A definitive answer would be nice. The inner driveshaft joints are very different on Saab turbos. Don't know about the splines.

Gearbox No3 is showing signs and making noises.

So if it's a bolt on job with no strange adaptor plates, cut driveshafts, odd clutches, different clutch releases and cables, engine mount, special linkages, equal length driveshafts and bearing. etc. etc. Then I'm very soon in the market for one.

There's a few things that they may have changed..........................

[Wasn't deliberately sarky, just sort of turned out that way ]
I thought the V6 had the same shafts as the turbo

The clutch is my concern.

One piece of advice I think may be worth offering, once you go past the torque numbers Saab were prepared to put through the transmission consider the fluid as a service item rather like engine oil as it will be heat damaged.
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  #10  
Old 18th October 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtopcav
I thought the V6 had the same shafts as the turbo
Meant different to Vauxhall. Don't think they have tripods with big silly boots on?
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  #11  
Old 23rd October 2006
jonny72888 jonny72888 is offline
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so anyone find anything out about putting that 6speed on a 2.0?
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  #12  
Old 23rd October 2006
liketheword liketheword is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny72888
so anyone find anything out about putting that 6speed on a 2.0?
I 2nd that one!
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  #13  
Old 23rd October 2006
jonny72888 jonny72888 is offline
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i really want a six speed, and mayb we will get some better gearing out of this deal
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  #14  
Old 24th October 2006
A12 A12 is offline
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How do we find all the different specs on gearboxes in question that way we can compare them?
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  #15  
Old 24th October 2006
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ferkle ferkle is offline
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I have my friendly local vauxhall nut on the case.


he also has 2 f28 6 speeders in his shed(so i understand at least)..... if i find this to be suitable, I may very well go ahead and try to make a change early next year, I originally posted as these units are dirt cheap relatively speaking, and figured if anyone knew off the cuff it would be a good investment, or at least a relatively easy swap, as raggy posted earlier the f23 5 speeder (as found on our vauxall cavalier/luton limo chassis brothers) may be a more likely option, and as it doesn't say saab on it, these are cheaper to obtain also!! the other reason is that the wierd noise i was getting a couple of weeks back was partly idler pulleys and also 'something' that isn't camchain as such i have listened a lot and had people hang out of te passenger window in a carpark and it does smack of gearbox unpleasantness, story of our lives eh!!

my original thoughts that the 'f' gearboxes might be bolt ons were due to my reading somewhere that the 900 5 speed is an f25 unit, and this clicked about a week later, as with vauxhalls the f series boxes, so far as i am led to beleive, are straight fit onto most vauxhall motors...

anyway i will keep posting as and when i know more.

just to get the thinking fluids going, does anyone have the ratio/final drive specs for the f25 found in our cars?

Last edited by ferkle; 24th October 2006 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 24th October 2006
liketheword liketheword is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferkle
I have my friendly local vauxhall nut on the case.


he also has 2 f28 6 speeders in his shed(so i understand at least)..... if i find this to be suitable, I may very well go ahead and try to make a change early next year, I originally posted as these units are dirt cheap relatively speaking, and figured if anyone knew off the cuff it would be a good investment, or at least a relatively easy swap, as raggy posted earlier the f23 5 speeder (as found on our vauxall cavalier/luton limo chassis brothers) may be a more likely option, and as it doesn't say saab on it, these are cheaper to obtain also!! the other reason is that the wierd noise i was getting a couple of weeks back was partly idler pulleys and also 'something' that isn't camchain as such i have listened a lot and had people hang out of te passenger window in a carpark and it does smack of gearbox unpleasantness, story of our lives eh!!

my original thoughts that the 'f' gearboxes might be bolt ons were due to my reading somewhere that the 900 5 speed is an f25 unit, and this clicked about a week later, as with vauxhalls the f series boxes, so far as i am led to beleive, are straight fit onto most vauxhall motors...

anyway i will keep posting as and when i know more.

just to get the thinking fluids going, does anyone have the ratio/final drive specs for the f25 found in our cars?
Anyone a little help? I have no clue myself...
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  #17  
Old 24th October 2006
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ferkle ferkle is offline
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I just found this (see below) which is handy. Formatting is out a bit.

Code:
Gearbox 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th rev FDR
================================================== ======
F10/F13 3.55 1.96 1.3 0.89 0.71 3.31 4.18
F16w 3.55 1.95 1.28 0.89 0.71 3.33 3.94
F16c 3.55 2.16 1.48 1.13 0.89 3.33 3.55
F18w 3.58 1.87 1.23 0.92 0.74 3.33 3.55
F18c 3.58 2.14 1.48 1.12 0.89 3.33 3.55
F20(3.55) 3.55 2.16 1.48 1.13 0.89 3.33 3.55
F20(3.72) 3.55 2.16 1.48 1.13 0.89 3.33 3.72
F23 3.58 2.02 1.35 0.98 0.81 3.31 3.84
F25 3.38 1.76 1.12 0.89 0.77 3.17 3.82
F28 3.57 2.16 1.45 1.1 0.89 0.74 3.32 3.72

So there we go. I will continue to search ignoring http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page61.htm because it is too painful!!

From a few searches trying to obtain the ratios on the F25 that we use, it appears to be the same as the f25 listed above - there are apparently

Anyone know the maths to work out how this translates into speed per rpm or whatnot? (I will keep searching after dinner, however at the moment my stomach takes precedence!!)

Last edited by ferkle; 24th October 2006 at 03:10 PM. Reason: failed code
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  #18  
Old 24th October 2006
liketheword liketheword is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferkle
I just found this (see below) which is handy. Formatting is out a bit.

Code:
Gearbox 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th rev FDR
================================================== ======
F10/F13 3.55 1.96 1.3 0.89 0.71 3.31 4.18
F16w 3.55 1.95 1.28 0.89 0.71 3.33 3.94
F16c 3.55 2.16 1.48 1.13 0.89 3.33 3.55
F18w 3.58 1.87 1.23 0.92 0.74 3.33 3.55
F18c 3.58 2.14 1.48 1.12 0.89 3.33 3.55
F20(3.55) 3.55 2.16 1.48 1.13 0.89 3.33 3.55
F20(3.72) 3.55 2.16 1.48 1.13 0.89 3.33 3.72
F23 3.58 2.02 1.35 0.98 0.81 3.31 3.84
F25 3.38 1.76 1.12 0.89 0.77 3.17 3.82
F28 3.57 2.16 1.45 1.1 0.89 0.74 3.32 3.72

So there we go. I will continue to search ignoring http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page61.htm because it is too painful!!

From a few searches trying to obtain the ratios on the F25 that we use, it appears to be the same as the f25 listed above - there are apparently

Anyone know the maths to work out how this translates into speed per rpm or whatnot? (I will keep searching after dinner, however at the moment my stomach takes precedence!!)
This would be a start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_ratio
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  #19  
Old 24th October 2006
t_buck09 t_buck09 is offline
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well since im at school i cant acess this, but they have a ratio converter on there website, http://www.quaife.co.uk/products/gearkits.asp you have to register, takes 30 sec, then you can access the converter, i wonder howmuch this would cost, and where reverse would end up being? maby waaaaay right and down or idk any thoughts
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1994 Saab 900 2.5L V6
-GenuineSaab Rear ARB 25.5mm
-clear indicators
-shift knob, pedals
-custom cold air intake
-mesh grille
-speakers
-stereo
-Thrush turbo muffler
-painted strut bar
UPCOMING
-St2 or viggen bodykit
-ultra light fly wheel
-ecu tune
-3.0 cams
-upgrade fuel system


Any thing else to make this the best saab around
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  #20  
Old 24th October 2006
jonny72888 jonny72888 is offline
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http://www.shopresponse.com/mugen_si...ift_knobtn.jpg


http://sixspeed.wordpress.com/files/...hift_knob3.jpg

so you cant find the gearing that we have now?
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