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NG900 & OG9-3 Performance, Mods & Tuning Covers Tuning & Performance modifications for the NG900 (1994 to 1998) & OG9-3 (1999-2002) & '03 Convertible

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  #1  
Old 13th September 2006
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Default rear ARB: thick vs double stack

before I buy, I am wondering if it would be more worth my while to double stack my rear ARB with one I have somewhere, or go with buying one thicker. I can weld it myself. Thanks
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Old 13th September 2006
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WaSaabiPSI WaSaabiPSI is offline
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i would just buy it, but i heard double stacking is about the equal to the 25mm bar.
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  #3  
Old 13th September 2006
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also, how close to wisconsin are u?
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  #4  
Old 13th September 2006
Sirhc Sirhc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaSaabiPSI
i would just buy it, but i heard double stacking is about the equal to the 25mm bar.
Not true it does nothing compared to an upgraded bar. I've tried it personally and can admit to it just being a waste of time.

The oem bar is flat in the corners at 3-5mm double stacking it really is not going to do anything. Another thing to consider is that most oem bar still out there are also starting to rust in the corners weakening them even more.

Wish I was wrong but I tried it and was proven wrong myself. The rear sway bar are so inexpensive I would really just buy one myself.
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Old 13th September 2006
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a couple hours by ferry or, I wanna say five or so hours by driving? Grand Rapids
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  #6  
Old 14th September 2006
1oldsaabman 1oldsaabman is offline
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definantly spend the $$$ & get a aftermarket one

the OEM bar is so flimsy adding 2 probably wouldn't do much of anything
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  #7  
Old 14th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirhc
Not true it does nothing compared to an upgraded bar. I've tried it personally and can admit to it just being a waste of time.

The oem bar is flat in the corners at 3-5mm double stacking it really is not going to do anything. Another thing to consider is that most oem bar still out there are also starting to rust in the corners weakening them even more.

Wish I was wrong but I tried it and was proven wrong myself. The rear sway bar are so inexpensive I would really just buy one myself.

I disagree.

It's not having the 2 bars that makes the difference, it's clamping them toghether that makes the difference. And yes, it is noticeable.
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i lost it a third of the way down the 1/4 mile when i was loosing controll i said to myself, am i gonna live threw this, so dont forget to check youre tire pressure, safety first or you may not be alive to prove these turd monkeys wrong.
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Old 14th September 2006
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I've one 900 with a double stack and another with a 22mm section not unlike the GenSaab item; the double stack at best doubles the stiffness and it is noticeable as soon as you hit your first bump; the car rises differently and then you go and drive it ; from there it gets better as the 22mm item is stiffer still, as the circular section increases the gain multiplies [or is it squared to the increase I've forgot, I did look into it once ]. Hence by the time you've gone up to the 25mm bar now available it's only recommended for track use by the maker.
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  #9  
Old 14th September 2006
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Yep, double stack is a worthwhile thing to do. If you already have a second bar, its free, won't cost more than a few bucks and your time to try it out. Be certain to get good nuts and bolts and really tighten it down. Then, use some stainless hose clamps looped around both bars in a few locations to tie the two bars together. Welding it would also work I suppose, but may make the bar too stiff as it is very springy now. If you do weld, don't put a seam along it, just stitch in a few places.

For free, you can't go wrong. I had my double stack for over a year and loved it. I had to tighten it up every now and again cause I used the same small hardware that was stock. Finally I upgraded to the thickest roll bar rather than try a triple stack!

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  #10  
Old 14th September 2006
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I did want to try a triple stack. I was inspired by fast food for that one
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotim
i lost it a third of the way down the 1/4 mile when i was loosing controll i said to myself, am i gonna live threw this, so dont forget to check youre tire pressure, safety first or you may not be alive to prove these turd monkeys wrong.
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  #11  
Old 14th September 2006
koniq koniq is offline
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I have a double stack sway bar and a gensaab 22mm bar. did not get around to trying the double stack because the single bar is so cheap and last so much longer as it's rust resistant! $90 is not alot of money for a one time upgrade that looks like it came with the vehicle and needs next to none adjustment!
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  #12  
Old 14th September 2006
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25mm does not equal track at all-That's a bunch of crap in my little mind. I have tried the stock, the 22 and the 25 and although the 25 is stiffer, it is in no way a "track bar". Most of us on this board are speed demons. If you do not know how to handle your car if and when the tail hangs out, or when the car pushes a tad then you should not be adding performance mods-(if you know what I mean) . Yes, saabs for the most part are straight line cars, but with a tad more help in the suspension dept. you can make these boats somewhat fun in the twisties.
Never tried the double stack, but sounds like it would work. The only issue I see is where it bolts. The longer the bolts the more flex you have no matter what. I really do not see you being able to have the same clamping force with 2 bars compared to one. And even though they are stacked, they will flex more then one big hunk of metal.
That's my 2 cents.
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Old 14th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lms
25mm does not equal track at all-That's a bunch of crap in my little mind.
But you don't make the part; are you prepared to be the one responsible if someone does lose the tail of their vehicle? I doubt it, hence I urge you to politely observe the makers caveat.
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  #14  
Old 14th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtopcav
But you don't make the part; are you prepared to be the one responsible if someone does lose the tail of their vehicle? I doubt it, hence I urge you to politely observe the makers caveat.
................
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  #15  
Old 14th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lms
25mm does not equal track at all-That's a bunch of crap in my little mind. I have tried the stock, the 22 and the 25 and although the 25 is stiffer, it is in no way a "track bar".

Think of it more as a warning I guess. I have the 25 mm and I don't think it is all that bad.

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  #16  
Old 14th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lms
25mm does not equal track at all-That's a bunch of crap in my little mind. I have tried the stock, the 22 and the 25 and although the 25 is stiffer, it is in no way a "track bar". Most of us on this board are speed demons. If you do not know how to handle your car if and when the tail hangs out, or when the car pushes a tad then you should not be adding performance mods-(if you know what I mean) . Yes, saabs for the most part are straight line cars, but with a tad more help in the suspension dept. you can make these boats somewhat fun in the twisties.
Never tried the double stack, but sounds like it would work. The only issue I see is where it bolts. The longer the bolts the more flex you have no matter what. I really do not see you being able to have the same clamping force with 2 bars compared to one. And even though they are stacked, they will flex more then one big hunk of metal.
That's my 2 cents.

Well you are entitled to your opinion. Having said that most individuals here do not have the 25mm bar and so the 22mm will do for most. I agree with you the 25mm is not a huge difference unless you are really going to throw the car around but if that's what is planned with the car well then there would probably be other suspension mods done.
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  #17  
Old 14th September 2006
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Just so everyone knows, I did not mean to ruffle anyone's feathers with my opinion, especially Nick's, the sponsors, the mods and anyone elses. That is not my nature. I enjojythe reading of this board to much to screw-up my standing.
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  #18  
Old 14th September 2006
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Sorry but if you think doublestack does nothing, you have a different rear suspension than I did. Most certainly after clamping, doublestack was a VAST improvement. I didn't even do the clamping fancy-I just used 3 giant thick hose clamps. If I had to pick only two cheap "mods" to make to the NG900, it'd be MBC+A and clamped doublestack.
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  #19  
Old 14th September 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lms
25mm does not equal track at all-That's a bunch of crap in my little mind. I have tried the stock, the 22 and the 25 and although the 25 is stiffer, it is in no way a "track bar". Most of us on this board are speed demons. If you do not know how to handle your car if and when the tail hangs out, or when the car pushes a tad then you should not be adding performance mods-(if you know what I mean) . Yes, saabs for the most part are straight line cars, but with a tad more help in the suspension dept. you can make these boats somewhat fun in the twisties.
Never tried the double stack, but sounds like it would work. The only issue I see is where it bolts. The longer the bolts the more flex you have no matter what. I really do not see you being able to have the same clamping force with 2 bars compared to one. And even though they are stacked, they will flex more then one big hunk of metal.
That's my 2 cents.
X2
i have the 22mm and im looking to get a 26 or 28mm one made. i cant see how a 25 is trace only
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  #20  
Old 14th September 2006
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The 25mm bar is fine if you have stock springs. The bulk of what an ARB does is increase the spring rate, enabling them to better resist the weight transfer during cornering. This definitely helps turn-in, so the car's inherent understeer is reduced by a huge factor.

But run that big of an ARB on a lowered car with shorter, stiffer springs and the teeth chattering will get annoying on anything but the smoothest roads, AND the car will go from being neutral / slight understeer to slight oversteer. People not used to this will need to budget an extra $100 or so a month for dry cleaning of both undergarments and seat upholstery. Especially on slick roads.....

3mm may not seem like much, but it makes a HUGE difference in stiffness. Check out this article from GRM for some maff

That said, if I lived in Florida or SoCal or any place with newer roads that didn't develop potholes from freeze/thaw cycles, I'd consider using the 25mm bar with my lowered car. The difference between a stock 19mm bar and a 22mm bar was night and day, and I'd love to hang the end out a little......The main reason I'm sticking with my 22mm for now is that I transport a 2-year-old every day and I'd like it if she didn't get shaken baby syndrome from riding in the backseat....


EDIT: Johnny, increase the rear ARB too much and you'll make it completely uncontrollable in turns. The car will oversteer and "tramline" horribly and you'll probably put it into a guardrail within a week. That's not a knock on your driving; it's just the physics of the car's geometry...

26 would probably be pushing it on a lowered car. 28 would be insanity without any corresponding change to the front ARB.

Last edited by mike saunders; 14th September 2006 at 11:04 PM.
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