9-7X hits Europe

[DavidMorgan]

Via Michelin, an excellent newletter, published this:
http://www.viamichelin.co.uk/viamich...saab-9-7-X.htm

And this Rolls Royce...:
http://www.viamichelin.co.uk/viamich...yce-101-EX.htm

[stetsonhatter]

I guess since they aren't selling any here... they decided to try to dump them off on you guys!

Only 50 planned for all of Europe? I think there are 15 at my dealer and they've been there for months.

And £37,000? 54,000 euros? Ouch! Are all Saabs that expensive over there?

[Willy Wonka]

It's just possible that the 9-7 could do well. The novelty aspect of a buick like Saab suv, may help the introduction. IMHO.

[ragtopcav]

Originally Posted by Willy Wonka

The novelty aspect

Very important that is.

My wife's a die hard Land Rover fan, she's really up for the Saab 'Chelsea tractor'; for Europe ideally it'll need an oil burner [well over 50% of vehicles sold here now are] or an LPG option.

[vectorX]

I live in NY and the saab 9-7 is selling faster then they can get them delivered? Not joke, htis is upstate NY not NYC

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by vectorX

I live in NY and the saab 9-7 is selling faster then they can get them delivered? Not joke, htis is upstate NY not NYC

Well it does snow alot around there, a SUV is not necesicerily a vanity purchase. Do we need to keep an eye out for the first one with a snow plough attachment?

[Mattlach]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Well it does snow alot around there, a SUV is not necesicerily a vanity purchase. Do we need to keep an eye out for the first one with a snow plough attachment?

Unless you drive on unplowed roads, SUV's are actually WORSE in the winter than cars.

It's a common misconception that SUV's are better for winter driving. The only part they help with is keeping you from getting stuck. They don't do a damn to help stop you from skidding into a ditch.
(in fact in this respect they are orders ofmagnitude worse than a regular car, thats why you always see all the SUV's in the ditches first time it snows every year)

...and when this skidding happens you are LUCKY if you wind up in a ditch, instead of killing a family of 5 in a Toyota because you insist on driving your truck frame equipped battering ram on public roads.

These faults of SUVs (compared to driving regular cars) claim more american lives annually, than the iraq war has in total, yet people are upset about the war, but defend their SUV's to the death...

[jetman]

The thing with winter driving is that its just not that hard. But confidence and remaining calm are 80% of it. So where an SUV might not actually perform better in the snow, as sad as it might be to admit, if it actually gives some timid drivers a bit more confidence, its doing its job one way or another. I always find that in the snow you always find the same few people in the ditch or accidents:
1. Idiot teens with no concept of physics.
2. Idiot adults with no concept of physics.
3. Timid drivers with no concept of physics.
4. Agressive drivers with no concept of physics.

[Mattlach]

Originally Posted by jetman

The thing with winter driving is that its just not that hard. But confidence and remaining calm are 80% of it. So where an SUV might not actually perform better in the snow, as sad as it might be to admit, if it actually gives some timid drivers a bit more confidence, its doing its job one way or another. I always find that in the snow you always find the same few people in the ditch or accidents:
1. Idiot teens with no concept of physics.
2. Idiot adults with no concept of physics.
3. Timid drivers with no concept of physics.
4. Agressive drivers with no concept of physics.

I think the confidence is actually a part of the problem...

People think they have AWD so they can drive however they want in snowy or icy conditions and the AWD will save them...

Well... All that is going to do is get you into trouble faster. AWD = All Wheel Go. All cars have all wheel stop. And SUV's due to their height and weight have a much longer stopping distance, and worse lateral friction than a comparable car.

[cdaly]

Originally Posted by stetsonhatter

And £37,000? 54,000 euros? Ouch! Are all Saabs that expensive over there?

Nah, only on mainland Europe. Here in Ireland that will translate to about 75,000 euros!

[Mattlach]

Originally Posted by cdaly

Nah, only on mainland Europe. Here in Ireland that will translate to about 75,000 euros!

Cars are more expensive in Ireland than other countries in Europe? Why? More taxes?

[jetman]

Originally Posted by Mattlach

I think the confidence is actually a part of the problem...

People think they have AWD so they can drive however they want in snowy or icy conditions and the AWD will save them...

Well... All that is going to do is get you into trouble faster. AWD = All Wheel Go. All cars have all wheel stop. And SUV's due to their height and weight have a much longer stopping distance, and worse lateral friction than a comparable car.

I have found that the absolute worst drivers are the ones that are scared to death.

[900t]

Originally Posted by jetman

The thing with winter driving is that its just not that hard. But confidence and remaining calm are 80% of it. So where an SUV might not actually perform better in the snow, as sad as it might be to admit, if it actually gives some timid drivers a bit more confidence, its doing its job one way or another. I always find that in the snow you always find the same few people in the ditch or accidents:
1. Idiot teens with no concept of physics.
2. Idiot adults with no concept of physics.
3. Timid drivers with no concept of physics.
4. Agressive drivers with no concept of physics.

So pretty much your average driver who isn't Finnish right?

[SaabKen]

Saab should revive their old ad slogan and change it to: "Plow Your Own Road"

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Well it does snow alot around there, a SUV is not necesicerily a vanity purchase. Do we need to keep an eye out for the first one with a snow plough attachment?

[cdaly]

Originally Posted by Mattlach

Cars are more expensive in Ireland than other countries in Europe? Why? More taxes?

Yep. Despite european rules on harmonisation, Ireland gets to keep its "Vehicle Registration Tax" (VRT) of 30% of market value for another 10 years or so. Up to recently, the wholesale price of cars in Ireland was the lowest in Europe simply because of VRT. There was a point where it was worthwhile for UK citizens to come to Ireland, buy a new car, bring it back to the UK, do all of the UK taxes and such and still come out GBP3000 ahead!

Worse than that, if you import a car from Europe/UK, you have to pay 30% of its Irish market value in VRT. And guess who decides its market value?...

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Mattlach

Cars are more expensive in Ireland than other countries in Europe? Why? More taxes?

^ what he said... + the need to be a Right hooker always penalises GB + IRL. It is still difficult, though less so to go to a dealer on the continent and order a RHD car. As the poster above noted, for a while there was a lot of tax arbitrage in Europe as manufacturers would price their cars x-tax so that across Europe they would cost the same post tax, thus a car in Ireland that was post tax 13,000 (10k + 3k tax) would be charged at say 11.5k in the UK (11.5k + 17.5% tax) is about 13k etc. It would therefore be worthwhile to buy the car in a high car tax country and then personally import it to the UK and pay the UK taxes instead of the purchase country taxes. Obviously the savings werer £££ otherwise people would not bother.
Mfrs tried to stop this, refusing to supply RHD to Europe dealers but the EU put a stop to that, since then the cost of new cars in the UK has fallen.

Another thing that helped reduce the sticker price of cars in the UK was the move by the government to tax company provided cars on the sticker price, not the invoice price. Big companies with big buying got big discounts off sticker that joe public could not, but their staff were being taxed 33% of sticker on their payroll, knowing that their employer paid 80% of sticker. This moved sticker down to keep big business and their employers happy.

[Mattlach]

Originally Posted by cdaly

Yep. Despite european rules on harmonisation, Ireland gets to keep its "Vehicle Registration Tax" (VRT) of 30% of market value for another 10 years or so. Up to recently, the wholesale price of cars in Ireland was the lowest in Europe simply because of VRT. There was a point where it was worthwhile for UK citizens to come to Ireland, buy a new car, bring it back to the UK, do all of the UK taxes and such and still come out GBP3000 ahead!

Worse than that, if you import a car from Europe/UK, you have to pay 30% of its Irish market value in VRT. And guess who decides its market value?...

Jeez..


Don't you guys vote? I couldn't imagine anything like this being popular. Sounds like something that any politician who wanted to be elected would have to oppose...

[cdaly]

Originally Posted by Mattlach

Sounds like something that any politician who wanted to be elected would have to oppose...

Nah, they just hand out a few extra million euros ahead of election time and then claw it back after... Anyway, we're too busy complaining about the 48 - 72 hour waiting time in hospital emergency rooms to worry too hard about VRT. There are those who say we deserve it 'cos we keep voting them in.

[peterchurch]

I was chatting to an owner of a Porsche tractor the other day and he figured out it was costing him more than a pound a mile !!!! sometimes as much as 4 in city driving... As much as it would be nice to see the 97 added to europe you have to ask why bother...