New IC is in

[lms]

Just installed G.S's/forge's I.C. Piece of cake, no probs. at all.

[NVign8d]

[JEALOUS]

Are you going to go do a Nordic stage also? What are your driving impressions? Any lessons learned?

I'd love to go with the GS or Jak IC, but I am really trying to save up for better suspension setup first...

Looks good!

NV

[MiatarPowar]

Yum! I'd love to be able to do the "bigger" upgrades with my 9-3 as well, but the Miata gets most of the love.

[lms]

Car is still in pieces. To be honest, it's been so long since I have driven this car that I doubt i will be able to feel any difference?
Yes I will be going with Nodic's ecu. I guess it's now referred to a stage 3+. Nick informed me that they changed the stage 3 map when they added this IC??
My bro has a tricked out Miata that he takes to the track as well. Those cars when setup are a blast to drive.
The car should be back on the road in a few weeks. I only have so much time to work on it, so it sits alot. I'm almost done with the IC sprayer setup. I have figured out where to mount the sprayers (attached to underside on bumper). There's not much space between the bumper and the ic so it's kind of a hassle.

[soccerrplyr]

pm me if you want to sell your old vig ic. I'd be interested

[John Z Williams]

That looks great, mysteriously a lot like my core....... You should notice a nice increase in absorbsion cababilities... Let me know how your sprayer system works out,

John

[mike saunders]

Originally Posted by John Z Williams

That looks great, mysteriously a lot like my core....... You should notice a nice increase in absorbsion cababilities... Let me know how your sprayer system works out,

John

That's because Forge has offered them for sale in Europe for about a year now. GS started importing them recently, but that size and design has been around for a while. And a bar-and-plate core looks pretty much like any other.

Mystery solved.

[John Z Williams]

yea, maybe or my ic guy has made a deal with Nick to be his distributor???

John

[zer0daze]

thats a pretty big core, what hp is it good for?
it looks like it fits really well.

[SaabinNH]

Besides inlet and outlet size and one or two more rows of fins, is this intercooler that much better than a viggen intercooler? I just got a viggen intercooler installed when I was home for my spring break. But I have been away from my saab since I came back to school. Do you think it is necessary for me to get a bigger intercooler like the one that is on this post? I only wanted a crossflow so I could get the horse power range that I am shooting for about 270-300 hp. But I feel like I don't need to upgrade to a bigger intercooler because I am not going to be pushing my car all the time and dont need a large intercooler for long and extended periods of time to keep my air more cool. I just want the horse power to blow by a WRX when he comes up to me on the (TRACK) light. I just need advise I was going to use the viggen intercooler for a while and upgrade this summer when I had the money. But I am not sure if the upgrade is necessary. Thanks for your time fellas.

Regards, Bryan

[stromer]

You say besides larger inlet and outlet and a couple fins. Well, the larger core and design of the core is the only real difference between them, and is the most noticeable. The inlet diameter is the same as the cross-flow, more of less. Comparing the cross-flow (Viggen) to the dual pass, the only difference is twice the flow (inlet diameters are the same). So, the forge or Jak's is still a considerable upgrade.

Now, whether you truly need it. Technically the cross-flow should flow enough so that if there is a problem, trionic can correct it safely. BUT, it will heat-soak very quickly. You say this shouldn't bother you, but I am sure it will.

Also, so get up to the 300 hp range, you will need an ecu anyways. I would ask your tuner what they reccomend.

I am pretty sure you'll be upgrading from your cross-flow sooner than later.

[John Z Williams]

If your not going to push it hard very often, the viggen ic will be just fine, if you go past 300bhp or want to do consistant back to back wot runs, the larger ic will definetly be worth the extra money. Its about flow and capacity to heat-soak. The larger core like mine, which is 3.5" wide, like Jak's will flow better and have less back-pressure. This equates to better spool-up and less heat and a larger capacity to absorb heat on hot summer days and at the track or on back to back wot runs. One example I have is on my car 310bhp uncorrected, with viggen ic, I could wind it out to 6k in second gear and go wot in third gear, it would spike to max boost then immediately fall back to 20psi and lose boost and power, if I slowed down and went wot again, it would never reach max boost and fluctuate badly and lose a lot of power and boost, heat soak. With my new monster ic 24x3.5x8" I can wind it out in second gear to 7k, go wot in third and it hits max boost of 28psi and holds a second or two, then falls to 23psi and holds to 5500rpm, the falls to 18-20psi with no fluctuation. I can slow down and go wot again and it will hit 28psi again. For my driving style and power, the larger ic is definetly worth it... If I only went wot on occasion, the viggen might be ok... I feel you can never have an ic that is too big or two efficient, I know others dis-agree, but I have come to love my monster ic and the fact that I can do multiple back to back wot runs with good power and boost and no detonation is a big plus to me. You can never get the air too cool and when its 95F outside, a large efficient ic can make a huge difference, more so than in the winter when its cold outside. I am still thinking of methonal injection to further aid in lowering intake temps and add a chemical ic to my large mechanical ic and keep intake temps down and keep pre-ignition to a minimum. This should only make the car run stronger and do it more safely. The cooler the air that you can injest into the engine, the better off the motor will be in my opinion... You are keeping pre-ignition to a minimum and this is a bad problem with Saabs, they get heat-soaked fairly easily and detonation is extreemly hard on the pistons and rings and motor as a whole... Water/methonal injection will also keep the head sparkling clean by steam cleaning the valves and head...my 2 cents,

John

[mike saunders]

Originally Posted by John Z Williams

If your not going to push it hard very often, the viggen ic will be just fine, if you go past 300bhp or want to do consistant back to back wot runs, the larger ic will definetly be worth the extra money.

Agreed...

With my new monster ic 24x3.5x8"

It's big, but it's no monster. It's the same size as the GS/Forge, the same size as the old MP and just slightly larger than a commonly available Spearco core. This is actually properly sized for higher HP applications. And it's the largest size that can fit in the stock location with inlets/outlets directed back toward the engine, allowing use of the stock hoses.

[SaabinNH]

What about these intercoolers on EBAY? Can there be a bad or a good intercooler? As long as the intercooler has no leaks, do they all cool the air that passes through the cooler? Wasaabi on here bought one on ebay and made special pipes for his intercooler. It has the same dimensions as the GS intercooler. But I was thinking of getting a 24x12x3.5 or even a 24x13x3.5 intercooler from ebay and making nice large lines for it all the way to the Throttle Body. It looks like Wasaabi's was pretty nice and not too difficult. I don't know I don't mean to be a begniner or anything but it just seems that there are better air flowing intercoolers than the GS or JAK's or MONSTER and they are cheaper. But let me say this I am not one to cut corners just to save some money. I feel that everything should be done right the first time. So I hope that everyone does not get the wrong impression about this. I just feel like people should be experimenting more with these types of modifications. Thanks guys.

Regards, Bryan

[lms]

Originally Posted by SaabinNH

What about these intercoolers on EBAY? Can there be a bad or a good intercooler? As long as the intercooler has no leaks, do they all cool the air that passes through the cooler? Wasaabi on here bought one on ebay and made special pipes for his intercooler. It has the same dimensions as the GS intercooler. But I was thinking of getting a 24x12x3.5 or even a 24x13x3.5 intercooler from ebay and making nice large lines for it all the way to the Throttle Body. It looks like Wasaabi's was pretty nice and not too difficult. I don't know I don't mean to be a begniner or anything but it just seems that there are better air flowing intercoolers than the GS or JAK's or MONSTER and they are cheaper. But let me say this I am not one to cut corners just to save some money. I feel that everything should be done right the first time. So I hope that everyone does not get the wrong impression about this. I just feel like people should be experimenting more with these types of modifications. Thanks guys.

Regards, Bryan

Space is one of the main deciding factors when it comes to IC's for our cars. Yes there are better end tanks, bigger cores and better transistioning pipes as well. It's making it all fit that seems to be the biggest hassle.
Check out mikes IC as well.
I don't have the time to buy a core, take measurements, weld pipes on and make it fit. If your good welder then make it happen. I would rather pay to get a half decent IC that is painless to install.

[zer0daze]

Originally Posted by SaabinNH

snip

just to reinforce what everyone else is saying. the ic core is what makes it really shine compared to the stock viggen unit.
bar and plate > *
and i am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that it is full of turbulators. most of the inexpensive ebay fmics have few to none. the only one that i have seen thats worth its weight in salt is the ssac copy of the precision ic. the core and end tanks were actually really nice for the price. however your going to need to do more work to get that mounted up.

[John Z Williams]

You have bar and plate and you have tubes. That is a whole debate within itself. My ic is the largest ic you could ever get to fit, bigger than Jak's by about 32 sq." The only way to go bigger would be to remove the a/c...

You must examine the core and ask questions, the fins per inch is also important and I have seen some on ebay that have the same amount as a viggen ic, about 5-7 I think. Mine and spearco and others can have as many as 15 fins per inch.
I feel these people know what they are doing and to have 15 fins per inch will absorb more heat than 5-7, but will let less air through the core, what is better, its hard to say, but I went with what the experts say and that was length is king and a nice dense core of 15 fins per inch is best.There are differences, you can find a good ic with 15 fins per inch if you look hard on ebay. That is were I found my ic manufactor, who also suppies others in the industry... Good Luck,
John

[Vigge]

Personally I feel that the only good way to evaluate any IC would be to measure the intake temps... just by looking at the shape and type does not tell much, at least not to me.

IHMO in a street car which is off boost 95% of the time the only thing that really matters in the thermal mass.

For instance the std viggen IC in a std viggen
http://viggen93.mine.nu/viggen/vig_std1.gif
one run in 3rd gear, ambient ~10deg C
start 20deg C over ambient and at the end of run 40deg C over ambient!!!

[John Z Williams]

I agree with Vigge, the shape alone will not tell the whole story. I was lucky enough to find a nice dense looking core on ebay, call the company and find out that many saab people already had this ic and the cores had been tested against spearco and Maptuns and Mpperformance. I was able to obtain enough information about the ic for me to feel this core was a good one and that I could not really do much better no matter who I bought it from. Turns out I could have ordered it from as many as 3 Saab Suppliers and received the same ic core. The only difference is I paid 299.00 for mine where as if I had bought it from one of the other suppliers it could have cost me anywhere from 600.00-850.00 bucks!

Thank god I did some research and found this company on ebay
John

[Shaft]

guys, should i be going bigger than a Viggen IC for a stage 4 SQR?