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NG900 & OG9-3 Performance, Mods & Tuning Covers Tuning & Performance modifications for the NG900 (1994 to 1998) & OG9-3 (1999-2002) & '03 Convertible

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  #1  
Old 30th March 2006
John Z Williams John Z Williams is offline
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Default Tried new dyno shop.

Here is the a/f and whp on a new dynojet I tried today, model 224x. They claimed they run about 10-15whp less than Mac Auto, but I am not interested in making great numbers, I am now interested in a good flat power curve and a good torque curve. My a/f and power curve look awesome to me. I was about 11.5 all the way across with new 2.5" piping. If the graph does not come out good it was 305whp and 335wtrq and flat a/f of 11.5/1 Enjoy,

John

Last edited by John Z Williams; 31st March 2006 at 11:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 30th March 2006
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mike saunders mike saunders is offline
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John,

That file is unreadable.

A better way might be to open an account at a free pichosting site (Photobucket is excellent) and post it as an in-line image and not an attachment.

...and those are corrected numbers, right?
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Old 30th March 2006
1oldsaabman 1oldsaabman is offline
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i couldn't read it at all either


if you can scan a copy of it email it to me & I can post it
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Old 30th March 2006
John Z Williams John Z Williams is offline
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Is there a better way to make it smaller? I am editing by attributes and then some croping. What is the best way to make them smaller and still be able to read it?
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Old 31st March 2006
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It's probably a full-size pic at altitude, but it's a little small here at sea-level............ (I couldn't resist)
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Old 31st March 2006
A12 A12 is offline
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Oh no here we go again...
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Old 31st March 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Z Williams
Is there a better way to make it smaller? I am editing by attributes and then some croping. What is the best way to make them smaller and still be able to read it?
John,

The BMP filesize by nature is f'in large. Instead, save the image as a JPEG/JPG or a PNG file. This is a format more suitable for online posting & it's actual memory requirements are nothing in comparison to BMP. (JPEG, etc have built in lossy compression....)

-bny
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Old 31st March 2006
2ksaabturbo 2ksaabturbo is offline
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That's pretty funking sick John.
I hope I get the opportunity to ride in that beast someday.
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Old 31st March 2006
John Z Williams John Z Williams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ksaabturbo
That's pretty funking sick John.
I hope I get the opportunity to ride in that beast someday.
Yea, its a blast to drive, what I like most is second gear pulls to 6500rpm, its sounds like a turbine engine... The intake noise is incredible!!!
Its like super so fun... The guys at the new dyno shop were quite impressed, they said, ok who built your motor? What stock internals???! How much boost???
Holy crap!!! Who is your tuner??? What are they stock? So this is a good car to upgrade for power? Geeze, I bet that little car flies... They were all 1/4 mile guys and had a shop full of Mustangs... Cobra, SVT Models... They said it was a 10 second car up here at Bandimere... Slicks on the back, skinnies on the front, it was funny, the young kid helper went to back my car into the dyno, I said, aaaaa, excuse me, this car is front wheel drive!!! He looked at me funny and said, oh, we usually do rear wheel drive cars, never done a front wheel drive car before, those darn Germans he says, I say no its those darn Sweeds!!!

John
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Old 31st March 2006
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John:
Just wondering at what rpm you reach full boost and how many pounds of boost you're running.Thanks.Looks good by the way.
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Old 31st March 2006
John Z Williams John Z Williams is offline
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I am reaching full boost by about 3800rpm, begins to spool at 2500rpm, but it starts to pull at 3k and pulls even harder at 4k to about 57-5800rpm.

On the highway in 4th gear, I will hit about 27-28psi and hold 27psi on my gage for a long, long time in 4th gear. I read higher up here, so about 24-25psi for low land lovers. In third gear it hits 26-27psi and holds to about 5k-5500rpm and then starts to dump boost and timing, back to about 20psi on my gage or 17psi for you low landers.... I do not have a huge turbo, but it is big enough to have the late full boost application. With new 2.5" piping the power is much smoother and comes on a little earlier, but then comes on stronger, smoother, does not hit all at once like before with worse lag. Switching to 93 octane and with my new ic and piping, I gained around 10-15whp... Not a ton, but what is nice is the low end and smooth power transition from no boost to boost to max boost.
First gear is a lot better and I am finding myself using first some as it does not jerk you back into the seat at 3k anymore... Much smoother power. For me to smooth it out and have it be more drivable was worth the bigger piping.
The dyno shows how consistant the power is with large ic too...
John
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  #12  
Old 1st April 2006
Vigge Vigge is offline
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What is the difference to your last run

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/at...achmentid=3904

besides that they now stopped at 6000rpm while on the last run they pulled to 6500 making it look that you bhp would stay up longer this time? From the curves, last time around you had ~275 corrected at 6000, same as now.
also 300 corrected, starting from 4600rpm, now 4700rpm.

I see two idenctical runs

I hope they did not reffer to your car and a 10s 1/4 in the same sentacne.
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Old 1st April 2006
John Z Williams John Z Williams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigge
What is the difference to your last run

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/at...achmentid=3904

besides that they now stopped at 6000rpm while on the last run they pulled to 6500 making it look that you bhp would stay up longer this time? From the curves, last time around you had ~275 corrected at 6000, same as now.
also 300 corrected, starting from 4600rpm, now 4700rpm.

I see two idenctical runs

I hope they did not reffer to your car and a 10s 1/4 in the same sentacne.
Difference is a/f, it was running 12.1/1 and up to 13.7/1, its now 11.5/1 all the way across. Consistancy, before I had 283whp, 302whp, 307whp with a/f all over the place. This time it was very consistant.

This is a differnt dyno that runs about 10-15whp lower than Mac Auto, so I actually gained whp and torque and it would have been somewhere around 315-318whp on the original dyno. So even though it looks the same, its a lower reading dyno, Same set-up with first graph you posted would have been around 290-292whp. Using diffent dynos will show different results as the shop owner explained to me, each dyno is its own breed and will show slightly diffrent numbers. I will have to go back to Mac to find out exactly where I am on their dyno since most of my data is from their shop. I am pretty sure its faster by my seat of the pants feel and the clock says its faster too. Just sharing all my info.
Good Lord no, my car and 10 seconds does not fit in the same sentence. I would guess my car would be in the high 13's up here and maybe low 13's to high 12's at sea-level. I have no idea... I will say this, by using larger piping from turbo to ic and ic to intake, I lowered the torque by about 10-15ft lbs. I seem to have better top end now and I do not spin the tires in second any more, its right on the edge of spinning, but does not and pulls hard to 7k in second... I feel like I am right on the edge of what my clutch and tranny can take, if I do go to Indiana, I suspect the extra power I would make would cause my clutch to slip and possibly break my tranny, its groaing fairly bad now.... I am happy with the lowered torque, no wheel spin and usable power higher into the rpm band. So even though this dyno graph looks almost identicle, its actualy making about 10-15 more whp and the torque is slightly lower...

As to stoping the dyno run at 6k, this guys was much more carful than the guys at Mac, this was their first Saab, he told his helper to watch the a/f and tell him to stop if the a/f went above 12/1. He also said he would stop the pull as soon as it started to lose power. I had no control over when he stoped the dyno run. Like I said this was a new dyno shop and a new person running the car on the dyno, not Nick, so he was not aware of any previous dyno runs and where to stop them, so your implication that it was done on purpose to make it appear like a better power run does not apply.
I was doing this dyno to check a/f before my tuner sends me one last ecu and I wanted to make sure my a/f was ok with new 2.5" piping. I posted mainly to show a/f and consistancy, which I think is great, if I wanted to post great numbers, I would have waited to get back on Mac's dyno where I know it will put down 10-15 more whp. I will be doing two more, a before and after with new ecu and new intake pipe that was developed by Nick at GS. We shall see how resrictive that stock intake pipe really is... Until then, keep it on the road and drive fast and take chances
John

Last edited by John Z Williams; 1st April 2006 at 11:55 AM.
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  #14  
Old 1st April 2006
Vigge Vigge is offline
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I like these "this dyno runs slitly" lower figures...

And what is the scientific approach to this? If the dyno would be calibrated diffently the 10-15whp would of course apply to a car with certain bhp level.
If you have less bhp in your engine than the "reference" car, you wont see a 10-15whp reduction, nor will it be true if you run higher bhp than the reference car. Of course you can get it to work by running same calibration and doing a 10-15 off-set correction to all curves

No point in babbling, just go to MAC "the most accurate dyno in the world" and see where you now stand in correlation with the old runs..

When is the video comming btw?
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Old 1st April 2006
John Z Williams John Z Williams is offline
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What can I say, I asked the shop owner if he knew how close the two dynos might be and he stated that he had customers that dynod over at Macs all the time and also dynod at his shop and he said he consistantly saw a 10-15whp gain at Macs. I was going for a/f, not numbers. If you read between the lines, it may just reflect one dyno shop is a little high and one is pretty close and I would have to agree that diffent dynos may show different numbers. I guess that is why doing all your dyno testing at one dyno with sae is the best way to know if your tuning or hw change has actually helped you and if you use different dynos or use uncorrected numbers, you will not know if its the day thats making the difference or the sw/hw change...

John
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