Cracked firewall common design fault?

musky · Mar 10, 2006

Cracked firewalls **NOW FULL RECALL**

This was a new one...@ 100 k's the steering has been a little off latley. My gently driven '00 9-3 convert had an oil change and the non-dealer Saab specialist told me that the steering bracket had cracked the firewall :evil: . Assuring me it was common, in fact the next guy who had a '04 convert had the same thing.

They said ring a Saab dealer and they fix it but the parts have a three month backlog.

The dealer inspected and said maybe Saab wont fix as its been serviced at non Saab service but they might. I understand they do but keep it pretty quiet.

The point is this is a very common problem in right hand drive 9-3's.

Anyone experience this? If not check it out.

ragtopcav · Mar 10, 2006

I wouldn't use the word 'common' but it is not unheard of. It's a hangover from the Vauxhall cavalier [what did Holden call that I wonder?]. My MOT tester looks for it every year on mine, [1993 first build, not failed as yet]

earthworm · Mar 10, 2006

Hard to visualize this problem, and I do not mean to make light of it; but if it is just a crack, why not just weld in a reinforcement using standard metal pieces.

It can be amazing what a good welder and some metal can do - no need to look pretty, just strong...

musky · Mar 10, 2006

Thanks for your replies.

I was 1 of 3 at the Saab only mechanic yesterday with this problem. It cracks at the firewall where the rack attaches. Converts probably flex more than hardtops and maybe the roads here in Oz are worse than the Old Darts.

It doesnt seem to affect LHD cars. Can be a major saftey issue and certainly screw up your steering with the rack wobbling and sliding around.

Saab has a kit to repair this, anyone know what it is? They inspect and repair at their cost so its vaguely like a recall. 3 month wait in Oz however for parts.
MR

musky · Mar 10, 2006

And they didnt use full synthetic oil to my surprise just 50/50. *******s.

JMarkert · Mar 10, 2006

I seem to remember someone from RHD world posting a series of pictures about this. I had thought it was ragtop, but I guess not.

earthworm, I think the problem with welding was that you had to take out the entire dash so that you could strip off the insulation that's inside the car (otherwise you get a fire).

Even if this isn't common, it's really an unacceptable kind of design flaw. Major structural components like that shouldn't fail just from regular use, even on bad roads.

musky · Mar 11, 2006

3 cracked firewalls in 1 morning seems alot. Inspection is next week. I'll post more when I find out about the 'kit' Saab use to repair it.

earthworm · Mar 11, 2006

JMarkert said:
I seem to remember someone from RHD world posting a series of pictures about this. I had thought it was ragtop, but I guess not.

earthworm, I think the problem with welding was that you had to take out the entire dash so that you could strip off the insulation that's inside the car (otherwise you get a fire).

Even if this isn't common, it's really an unacceptable kind of design flaw. Major structural components like that shouldn't fail just from regular use, even on bad roads.

I was thinking arc welding, and using water to control the heat - but this is probably impossible..

I agree, JM, particularly considering the age of the design (middle 80s) and the large market in the UK..

Does Saab have an extended warranty for the crack problem ?

matt16v · Mar 12, 2006

Hi

It was actually me that posted the pictures on here a while ago.There is a thread on www.saabscene.co.uk at the moment as well. If you visit http://www.saabphotos.com/gallery/My-NG900-Bulkhead-Repair you can see my pictures.

regards

Matt

JMarkert · Mar 12, 2006

matt16v said:
Hi

It was actually me that posted the pictures on here a while ago.There is a thread on www.saabscene.co.uk at the moment as well. If you visit http://www.saabphotos.com/gallery/My-NG900-Bulkhead-Repair you can see my pictures.

regards

Matt

Ah, yes, that's the one I remember. I wake up every day happy in the faith that no matter what problems my car might develop, I am unlikely to have to go through the entire dash disassembly that you had to go through

matt16v · Mar 12, 2006

Yes and taking out the engine/gearbox and steering rack. I would not want to do another one

Matt

earthworm · Mar 12, 2006

O/S
N/S
Two unknowns
This must have been a $$$$ job !
Great tutorial for learning this task.

ragtopcav · Mar 12, 2006

The only one I've done is on a cavalier, I welded with most things in situe, just removed all the carpets and acoustic foam for the task. If I recall I welded a generous patch of 1.5mm thick zinc plated steel. The Saab has a bolt on section sometimes this fails rather than the main panel itself so a 'repair kit' is indeed feasable.

Whilst I had my engine out recently as a matter of course I checked this zone for possible weakness, it looked pretty good, but lower down where the floor meets the bulkhead there was a lot of damaged paint. It was directly under the brake reservoir, over the years spillages from bleeding etc had accumilated into the spongey sound deadener in this zone nad had been slowly eating into the paint. I did a paint repair and cut away this section of foam [the last 2" across the bottom] to prevent a recourence of this.

SAABturboDRIVR · Mar 12, 2006

So there aren't any reports of this happening in left hand drive cars in the US?

ragtopcav · Mar 12, 2006

SAABturboDRIVR said:
So there aren't any reports of this happening in left hand drive cars in the US?

I get the impression it's mostly RHD that suffer this [the cracks] the thing I've mentioned with the spilt brake fluid can happen to any.

musky · Mar 13, 2006

I asked the service mngr if this is a full recall he said "Yes the letter is going out now for all cars to be inspected". It doesnt matter who services it or if it never has been serviced Saab picks up the tab.

The Saab kit consists of strenghtening plates welded to the firewall at a panel shop. The steering rack and brake booster have to be removed, pedal box and the foam lining.

The dealer who inspected couldnt see any crack (but its there). Had to book in for full day next week whereas my Saab only independant showed me in 2 minutes.

I will ring Saab Oz now and tell them about the slack dealer who needs the car for yet ANOTHER day.

Cheers MR.

faigolfgti · May 5, 2007

Can somebody here please post the photo of the rirewall repair kit?How it looks like?What is the saab part no if need to place and order from saab?

Thank You.

prettylittleblackbird · Jan 10, 2011

What KM's were on your car when crack diagnosed?

HI everyone, i'm trying to get some stats on this firewall crack problem. Hoping owners or previous owners can post the KM's on their car when the crack was diagnosed and maybe also the year make of the car? And the year it was diagnosed, fixed by saab or fixed otherwise.
If a decent pattern emerges then maybe we can when it seems to be happening? OR maybe its random?
Mine,
69,000kms on clock,
diagnosed 04/2011,
1998 model 900.
Not fixed yet.

men-saab · Jan 10, 2011

Another one...

This was a problem with this model which only affects right hand drive cars. Its a result of the NG900/OG9-3 up to 2002 being based on an Opel Vectra floorpan/bulkhead. Several of the GM Europe models had this design (Astra, Cavalier, Vectra, etc) and they all were afflicted by this problem. Yet it doesnt seem to get the same attention on these models as probably by the time its a problem the car is old and worthless anyway so is just scrapped. But SAAB's are more of a premium car and so are worth more, and owners expect more from a maker that used to be known for its engineering.

There is nothing wrong with mounting the steering rack on the bulkhead if its properly strengthened - some Rovers and Austins of the past had the suspension acting on the bulkhead without problem;ol;! But the SAAB was a more powerful, heavier car, and clearly the bulkhead wasnt beefed up to cope. This can be seen from the crash test results - very good (for its day) for side impact, but surprisingly poor for front off-set impact. This is a result of the weak Vectra chassis.

The classic test for potential bulkhead cracking is to turn the wheel lock to lock while watching the brake pedal - even on a good car, amazingly the pedals will move as the bulkhead flexes

. But any more movement than "slight" points to problems. Perhaps as a result of Australian laws, SAAB there seems to repair them all free using its own repair kit, but here in the rip-off UK they washed thier hands of it long ago - even when the cars were newer they often only paid a portion of the repair bill.

If you havnt got bored reading what has turned into rather a long post (sorry) its worth noting that bigger wheels/low profile tyres seem to make the problem worse. There are subframe bracing kits which are supposed to tighten up the front end, and convertables especialy benefit from this.

This is my first 9-3, bought for a bargain price and passed its MOT without problem, but much as I love the car I wont have another one - as the cars get older the incidences will only increase.

hkayssi · Jan 11, 2011

Here's a 2002 RHD 9-3 off center hit by a motorcycle. what are the chances it had a cracked firewall?
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1773392&postcount=3025

Hmmmm

DrewBedelph · Jan 11, 2011

Thanks for posting that photo of my 9-3 Anniversary! ;ol;

hkayssi · Jan 11, 2011

Hahaha, That was spectacular damage on that car Drew!
Did you fix the silver Aero yet?????

'97 Saab SE Turbo · Jan 12, 2011

Here's something about cracks in early 9-3's:

http://www.saab9-3bulkhead.com/

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=3329

And there are more. Just google "Saab Firewall Cracks" and be prepared to do some reading... Ron

'97 Saab SE Turbo · Jan 12, 2011

I read a little more and one of the posts said that the last of the OG9-3's had a plate added at the factory. Maybe someone with a 2002 RHD 9-3 could verify that.

But someone else posted that Saab would only repair firewalls on cars that had a full maintenance history. How many can that be?.. Ron

http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20896

Cracked firewall common design fault?

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