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  #1  
Old 21st January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default Ignition switch failure (newbie)

Hi:

I bought an '86 900s 4dr just over a month ago. I plan a full restoration.
Just turned 50, kids all grown up, why not? This is my 1st SAAB.
FWIW, I bought this car for $1400 and chose it because body is perfect: no rust, no dents... perfect. 199k miles. Interior nice (cloth).

I bought a HANES manual, and already find it lacking.

Ok... so I climb in today, go for a drive, return home: shut it off/lock ignition, and entire tumbler comes out with the key. I've seen other posts on this forum, with author's suggesting to search for "how to" on this job (ignition key assembly replacement). I've done so, found general descriptions but...

My manual has nothing on this. So a few questions if I may:

- Removing the center console (eg: between front seats containing em. brake, shifter, key etc.) is not described in my manual either. I removed 2 allen bolts on each side in the front, a bolt behind front ashtray, and 2 others behind rear ashtray. The console is still connected in the center somehow. Can someone give me instructions to remove it w/out breaking it in 2? Do I need to remove front seats, or partially loosen dash board?

It appears there are separate, carpeted panels between vertical, lower front skirt of this console and and floor board area. Are these removable, and/or part of this console disassembly?

- I'm aware of the unique SAAB socket (10 or 11mm ?) for ignition tumbler removal, and locking mechanism which works in concert w/ignition key: hopefully it will make sense when I see it. Google has given me a number of sources for these parts, with significant $$ variation and manufacturers. Any consensus on vendors &/or aftermarket SAAB manufacturers?

I see the Bentley SAAB manual seems consensus choice here. I asked a local (Albuquerque NM) independent SAAB shop about this today: he said it's a lot better than the others but recomended I buy OEM manuals from SAAB. Comments/suggestions?

And while I'm at it, 1 other minor thing to fix at this moment, healing suggestions welcome:

- the interior light works when moving switch mounted on light to bottom position. However, owners manual says button position (3 way) in middle should accuate light when doors ajar. It does not.

Ok... thank you very much.
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  #2  
Old 21st January 2006
philbert philbert is offline
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Default

That center console is actually two pieces. *going by memory, it's been a while* You will need to lift up the shifter boot (manual) or shifter cover (automatic) to access the remaining bolts holding the front cover on. Once you have that removed, then there will be one more bolt holding the back section in place in the middle of the center console section. I recommend you also remove one of the front seats. Now you'll have access to the ignition assembly.

I didn't bother buying one of those removal tools for the 3-sided nuts, I made my own from an old 10 or 11 mm socket. I just ground down the sides to fit the nuts.

On the interior lights, the position towards the front of the car should turn on the interior lights, the middle one turns them off, and towards the back will turn them on when you open the door....they are on a timer.
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  #3  
Old 21st January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default Thanks for your help:

Quote:
(...)You will need to lift up the shifter boot (manual) or shifter cover (automatic) to access the remaining bolts holding the front cover on.
I have a manual. Does the shifter boot pry loose from the top? W/out an assembly diagram, it looks to me like it has a retainer lip underneath the console.

After I posted here, I found this link (w/phote)in this forum's C900 Workshop FAQ:
http://www.twinsaabs.com/kneebolster/disassemble.html
... which says the booted center piece in this console snaps out (at least I think that's what he's saying). Would be nice if someone could confirm this before I go at it tomorrow morning... wondering if I can just pop that piece out with a screw driver?

Thanks.
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  #4  
Old 23rd January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default Ignition switch/Interior "stuff" model yr compatability

I'm heading to local Pull'nSave wrecker who says they have 3 '85 SAAB 900(s).

I have an '86 900s (just purchased, my 1st SAAB) 4dr sedan.

I'm wondering year/model compatability for...

- ignition switch
- front half carpet/insulation
- front seats
- front door inside panels
- dashboard

thanks.
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  #5  
Old 23rd January 2006
jetman jetman is offline
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Default

Everything will be compatible except the door stuff needs to be from 4 door to 4 door.
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  #6  
Old 23rd January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default Thank You...

very much!!!
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  #7  
Old 23rd January 2006
jetman jetman is offline
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My dad has a little Cafe in Hillsboro (33 miles from TRC) if you're ever down that way. Stop in for the best green chile cheese burger anywhere. Then go blasting through the Black Range Mountains! Man I miss New Mexico!

http://hillsborogeneralstore.com/

Um, or buy the place
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  #8  
Old 23rd January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default Ignition switch/Shifter assembly

I have console/front seats/front carpet retainer (door jam) removed, and
carpet folded forward just beyond plastic shift linkage housing (is that correct term?).

I fashioned 11m socket for the shifter mounting retainer, worked fine (thank you SAAB community... Snap On wants $150+ for that thing), and have removed same bolts on the shifter assembly. I have removed 3 bottom screws retaining cap to ignition wiring/switch, and have removed wiring "plug" (does this have a name).

The purpose of this exercise is replacement of ignition switch. A couple more questions:

- how is ignition switch (i/s) removed? There appears to be a clip on underside of i/s, but I've never seen one of these before. Does removing this clip free i/s, and if so how to remove the clip? Does that clip have a specific name?

- How to remove shift linkage from front of this assembly? Or should it be removed at the other (tranny) end? Do I need to entirely remove carpet? There is a plastic housing (yellow/white) on underside of shift mount on front, w/several retaining screws. Will removing this disengage linkage from the shift assembly? If so, must I exercise care in marking positions of linkage and/or (???)?

- laying loose under the center console is one wired light bulb which was not plugged into console as best I can tell. Neither do I see a socket or mounting for this light. I assume it's to illuminate center console at night, but can't fathom how it accomplishes that.

This is my 1st time through one of these things... any suggestions/recomendations as long as I've got this apart are very welcome.

Thanks.
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  #9  
Old 23rd January 2006
philbert philbert is offline
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Are you trying to remove the ignition switch (electrical) or ignition switch (where the key goes)? The electrical just has two screws at the top, remove those and it pulls up. For the keyed portion, you should be able to rotate the entire assembly 90 degrees to get to the bottom side, no need to remove the shifter/linkage.

The light you found is more than likely for the ignition switch. There should be a small opening on the underside of the black plastic center console not too far from where the key hole is.
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  #10  
Old 23rd January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default I'm trying to...

Quote:
Are you trying to remove the ignition switch (electrical) or ignition switch (where the key goes)?
where the key goes... eg: replace entire tumbler assembly. I referred to that as i/s. This part does not just pull out as best I can tell. The underside has what appears to be a clip (as I mentioned), and I'm not sure if I need to remove that or not. The i/s also interacts w/the locking mechanism...

So, I'm just trying to figure out proper procedure to remove i/s.

I'd also like to know if removing plastic housing under section where linkage attatches to the shift housing (call it s/h) frees the linkage from s/h, and if I need to save/mark attachment position of linkage to s/h.

thanks.
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  #11  
Old 23rd January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default Hi...

Quote:
My dad has a little Cafe in Hillsboro (33 miles from TRC) if you're ever down that way. Stop in for the best green chile cheese burger anywhere. Then go blasting through the Black Range Mountains! Man I miss New Mexico!

http://hillsborogeneralstore.com/
I've only been here (ABQ) 3 months, and don't know where TRC is yet.

I'm going to cherry this old SAAB out, and primary purpose of doing so is to make this thing my ride for seeing the many wonders on this beautiful state. So probably I'll be driving by there sometime this summer (wherever it is).

Quote:
Um, or buy the place
Sorry, I'm a lousy cook.
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  #12  
Old 23rd January 2006
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cdaly cdaly is offline
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Default

To remove the ignition lock, you need the key and a small {2mm or so} allen key, stiff bit of wire or drill bit. Locate the small hole near the bottom of the lock on one side. Insert the key and turn a few degrees {maybe 10-15 but I'm not sure exactly how far} from the locked position. With the key still in, push in the wire to depress the clip. Now pull up on the key and the lock should come with it. Don't pull the key out of the lock at this point 'cos the tumblers may fall out...

The usual way to remove the shift linkage is to get under the car and undo either the tapered pin holding the shifter shaft to the gearbox input shaft {in which case you don't need to mark anything} or mark and undo the pinch clamp close to the tapered pin. If it's just to get the ignition lock out, you might find it easier to remove one of the seats and just tilt the linkage housing enough to access the lock release hole...
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  #13  
Old 23rd January 2006
jetman jetman is offline
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Truth or Consequences is about 4 hours south. Sort of near Las Cruces.
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  #14  
Old 23rd January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default still having trouble...

removing key cylinder. I have followed your instructions. However, with key in the switch, turning from locked <> center position and back I can find no location which allows the key (pin) to depress. The pin I am pressing is on driver's side, in an angled cutout section of the shifter housing: this pin's trajectory is towards bottom of ignition key thingie.

Update: I drilled out the pin, per instructions from local independent SAAB shop. Did the trick, and don't see any harm: eg. if I need to do this again, a small nail or drill bit depresses pin on cylinder.

One last question: there is a now long, black pin hanging from bottom of shifter housing, extending from bottom of enclosure for key/tumbler unit I just removed, through security gear on underside. I see nothing that will hold this in place... it moves up/down freely. Anyone have instructions, if any, describing what keeps this in place when I install new Ignition/tumbler unit?

And I must say, this forum has been great!!! I paid for a subscription @ SAABNET as soon as I bought the car, but help/advise/forum search/following threads all have been much better here... Wonderful resource, especially for SAAB newbie wrencher like me.

So, thanks again.
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  #15  
Old 23rd January 2006
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koeyjay koeyjay is offline
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Don't you need a special SAAB tool to get to the tumbler? I'm sort of starting this job right now as my screwdriver starting technique has failed.
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  #16  
Old 24th January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Quote:
Don't you need a special SAAB tool to get to the tumbler?
In order to "get to" the tumbler, only special tool I'm aware of is socket to remove the shifter housing assembly from it's mooring. The placement of these bolts, a ground/machined 11mm socket are described w/photo here:

http://www.saabnet.com/sites/900conv...gearshift.html

Actually removing the tumbler assembly should be possible following instructions cdaly described in this thread. However, that works only if you have a key that fits the tumbler. In my case, the keyed (inserted in tumbler housing) portion pulled free from the housing, which was my reason for doing replacement. I could put this portion back in tumbler housing, and start car/engage locking mechanism. However, I was not able to get it properly aligned so that the lock pin cdaly described would engage the spring loaded lock pin on tumbler assembly. Note that pin cdaly describes is simply a direct, unconnected "plunger" which suppresses a spring loaded pin on exterior of tumbler housing. The rotating of key he describes is simply to align these 2.

My SAAB shop printed out several pages from their OEM SAAB Mechanic's manual. Drilling the pin, as I did, was recomended method for removing these things when no key is available (as I said). My inability to get proper alignment put my situation in the same category AFAIC.

I said before, but AFAIC drilling that thing out was no big deal... just took a couple minutes. I can remove new one w/small scribe that fits in hole I drilled. Given there's no pressure on tumbler exterior to depress it's external spring when such action is not desired (eg: when not trying to remove it), this doesn't not seem like any problem at all AFAIC.

Quote:
I'm sort of starting this job right now as my screwdriver starting technique has failed.
don't know what you mean by "screwdriver tecqnique".

All I can say is this is first time I've done this (just hard car 1 mo. +). I worked with a HANES manual, which has proven to be lacking (orderd Bentley manual today). Only difficulties I had were...

- removing center console... eg finding all mounting bolts.
- fashioning 11mm socket as described above
- removing tumbler assembly

If you have problems getting console off, let me know and I'll clarify. I'm thinking I'll take a few pictures/write short "how to", as oddly enough... with all the great info on this forum, that process was not available that I could find. Maybe doing so will save newbie like myself some time.
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  #17  
Old 24th January 2006
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koeyjay koeyjay is offline
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i was starting my car with a screwdriver shoved in where the tumbler once was. but now theres absolutely nothing left to grab so its time to fix it! I have the bently manual which lays it out pretty staight forward, but i didn't have that special tool. now however, ill just fashion my own which makes me quite happy. do you think its absolutely necessary to remove the seats?
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  #18  
Old 24th January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default should remove...

at least driver's side seat. The pin we've discussed is most easily accessed by tilting shift mount assembly towards driver's side. Aside from that, center console is a bit tight w/out doing this (I tried... ).

I ended up removing both seats... just 4 bolts on each seat. Also removed seat tracks in order to fold carpet out of way. Removed door jam covers on floor for the same reason.
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  #19  
Old 24th January 2006
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koeyjay koeyjay is offline
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yes, im quite new at this sort of thing myself. any help you can throw me would be great. i have the car outside and im at work all day, with no light left to work on the car with, so its a weekend thing. shouldn't take very long though (so i say now) i couldn't get the reverse ring off the shifter so i could get the leather boot completely off. id like to get some boot polish on it.
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  #20  
Old 24th January 2006
jdmckay jdmckay is offline
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Default correction...

If you remove only 1 seat, remove passenger (sorry).

Quote:
any help you can throw me would be great.
Well, I think I described everything I could think of that was not obvious.

Quote:
i couldn't get the reverse ring off the shifter so i could get the leather boot completely off.
not sure what -reverse ring- is... do you mean shifter knob? I saw elswhere on this forum someone said it should pull of. I'm not so sure that's right. I haven't removed mine... looks spiffy as is.

Quote:
id like to get some boot polish on it.
t'heehee...

I'm going to bed. Good luck.
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