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  #1  
Old 25-11-05
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Default 2008 could be BIG year for SAAB

Hmm, a 3-dr and 5-dr 9-2, then the 9-4X, and soon after that the launch of the new 9-3 and 9-5. Somewhere in there may be the new 9-6X replacing the 9-7X, and maybe even a Sonett IV.


http://www.channel4.com/4car/future-models/2008-4.html
Saab 9-2
Original Impreza twin now shelved in favour of a reworked version of the Opel/Vauxhall Astra (to arrive 2008), after GM's sale of its stake in Subaru. New 9-2 will be built alongside Astra in Germany, though Saab insists it will have much Saab-specific content and tuning. Expect three- and five-door hatchback models, the latter with a sports estate feel, but coupe-cabriolet and estate versions, as in the Astra range, unlikely. To be positioned further upmarket than Astra, going head-to-head with Volvo C30, Audi A3 etc.
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  #2  
Old 25-11-05
TuuSaR TuuSaR is offline
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Didnt GM boss just told that 9-2 will be made in Sweden 2010...
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  #3  
Old 25-11-05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuuSaR
Didnt GM boss just told that 9-2 will be made in Sweden 2010...


Ya I think I heard that some were too.
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  #4  
Old 26-11-05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuuSaR
Didnt GM boss just told that 9-2 will be made in Sweden 2010...
Maybe this 9-2 is going to be another "stopgap" measure to fill-in the SAAB lineup for a couple of years before they release the one in 2010? So that would mean that we'd have the Impreza-based one until '07 model year, then in '08 we'd have an Astra re-badge (made in Germany), then in '10 we'd get the fully-SAAB 9-2 (made in Trollattan but based on the Opel Astra OPC platform)?

I'm guessing that the 9-2 in '08 would be based on a current or soon-to-be released Astra, but the one in 2010 would be based on a yet-to-be-introduced next-gen platform.
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  #5  
Old 26-11-05
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That's my theory too. With current 9-2X bowing out in '07, I don't expect Saab to leave that hole in its product line (aforementioned 9-2 is for global market including diesel) for three full years until 2010.

I'm no auto designer/engineer, but my guess is it'd be easier to Saab-ize an Astra than it did for the Saabaru 9-2X. Saabastra ..... anyone ?
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  #6  
Old 26-11-05
Nimisys Nimisys is offline
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the current astra is a delta car, which currently is in the US as the Colbalt, Pursuit, and ION. given that the malibu and G6 share the same underpinnings as the current 9-3, they should be able to make enough of a distinction in the model as not to be immediatly recongnizable as to were it came from. Though it does give a hint as to what the platfrom is capable of allready (colbalt SS comes to mind)
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Old 27-11-05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimisys
the current astra is a delta car, which currently is in the US as the Colbalt, Pursuit, and ION. given that the malibu and G6 share the same underpinnings as the current 9-3, they should be able to make enough of a distinction in the model as not to be immediatly recongnizable as to were it came from. Though it does give a hint as to what the platfrom is capable of allready (colbalt SS comes to mind)
Whereas the Chevrolet G6 and Malibu are based on the same platform as the 9-3, aside from the platform itself they were designed from the ground-up separately. What I'm guessing SAAB will do is first badge engineer the '08 and '09 Opel Astra, then come out with the 9-2 based on the same platform as the next-gen Astra in '10.

There's a distinct difference between badge engineering and platform sharing.
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  #8  
Old 27-11-05
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Ironically, the 9-7X falls in between those two methods. Call it extreme badge engineering or mild platform sharing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 1985 Gripen
There's a distinct difference between badge engineering and platform sharing.
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  #9  
Old 27-11-05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1985 Gripen
There's a distinct difference between badge engineering and platform sharing.
how so? a platfrom gives you basic demensional values, drivetrain layout, basic structure, etc. Bagde engineering is what you do to differentiate the platfroms between brands. an archetic can define a basic shape and structure for a school, but the indivuda districts can change the details as they need to fit their own areas. the schools share a same basic design, but are engineered for two different consumers.

the 9-7 is case of platfrom sharing with mroe badge engineering that any other division. the difference between a chevy silverado and gmc seirra would be an example of platfrom sharing with virtualy no badge engineering.
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  #10  
Old 28-11-05
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Every USA financial guru is telling GM that Saab has to go. GM is one step above bankruptcy and anything that is draining money (SAAB) has to go. GM will either sell Saab within a year or two at the most, reduce it to a total niche platform or fold it up. Remember, Olsmobile was selling five times what Saab sells and GM dumped it. GM's money hemorage cannot sustain a money loser any longer. Wall Street will not allow it. GM bought Saab, had no idea what to do with it, let it languish starved for cash and now it's to late to save it.
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  #11  
Old 28-11-05
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Don't tell me, let me guess...
Hatch owns a pre-90 Saab, yes?
My god man, do some research before you spout out more of the same old GM hating Bulls...

As of October
  • Chevy has sold 24,000 more vehicles then last year
  • Cadillac has sold 20,000 more in 05 vs. 04
  • Saab has sold 600 more cars then at the same point in 04
Now the bad news, again as of October
  • Pontiac has sold 38,000 less cars this year
  • Buick has sold 42,000 less cars this year
  • Even "the mighty Saturn" sold 137,000 thru Oct last year, compared to 106,000 this year.
Now... going by just numbers... I doubt Saab would be the first to go. At least they increased sales, however marginally...
Saab needs to go?!?! Seems to me that Buick is a MUCH larger drain on the company then Saab is.
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  #12  
Old 28-11-05
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I did not say it was just Saab. Most Wall Street financial people are saying Saab, Buick, Pontiac must go and maybe GMC also. GM has 11 brands. GM does not have the cash to support 11 brands. Something has to give. I just hope if Saab goes it can be sold and not just folded up like Oldsmobile.
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  #13  
Old 28-11-05
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Cool. I'm just saying there are much bigger losers in GM's stable then Saab.
Euro sales are even better for Saab. I would think Buick and GMC would go first.

/sidenote/ I never really understood GMC. Every division of GM, including Saab now, has a truck/SUV... why would you have ANOTHER division making ONLY trucks?!?
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  #14  
Old 28-11-05
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I think it's all too easy for most people (including us) to critique GM or Saab from this side of the fence, not knowing all the financial, institutional, labor, political, technical and marketing challenges that THEY have to wrestle with

..... whew !
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  #15  
Old 28-11-05
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You never understood GMC??? It is classic GM... Build a Chevy truck, add a few do dads and a different grill and charge them more.... Build a Chevy Impala add a few do dads and call it a Pontiac and charge them more.... Add a few more do dads and call it a Buick and charge them more. It is a vision that made GM #1 in the world by the 1960's but the vision is obsolete, it does not work any more. The managers at GM could not adjust to the new auto world that came in 1976 with the first gasoline crisis. It's been downhill ever since. Like I said, something has to give. I would keep Saab, it's just that the clowns in Detroit don't begin to understand the gem Saab is. They are basicly Truck/Suv/V-8 people. They do not get 4 cilinder turbos, good mileage, green technology, safety, all the things Saab brought to the table. Can they change, will they change??? That is the question. My guess is, I don't think so. They would rather have their V-8 Impala SS or SUV than a turbo 4 Saab.

Last edited by Hatch; 28-11-05 at 08:30 PM.
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  #16  
Old 28-11-05
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It should be noted that GM has owned Saab for 15 years, 10 of those years at 50% ownership and the last five years at 100%, none of which year did Saab ever turn a profit. GM lost hundreds of millions $USD (if not more) with Saab and it's still committed to future ownership with Saab. Now I don't know about you, but these "truck/Suv/V-8 people" are either very very dumb .... or very very patient and has a grand vision for the Saab brand. I'll let you Find Your Own Conclusion .......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatch
I would keep Saab, it's just that the clowns in Detroit don't begin to understand the gem Saab is. They are basicly Truck/Suv/V-8 people. They do not get 4 cilinder turbos, good mileage, green technology, safety, all the things Saab brought to the table. Can they change, will they change??? That is the question. My guess is, I don't think so. They would rather have their V-8 Impala SS or SUV than a turbo 4 Saab.
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  #17  
Old 28-11-05
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The first gas crisis was in 1973 not 1976
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  #18  
Old 29-11-05
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GM Management... I go with very very dumb. The reason Saab is in this mess is it has been starved of cash by GM since it was bought. GM Management never knew what to do with Saab. This new GM plan for Saab should have been instituted a decade ago. Now GM is in very serious financial trouble and can no longer sustain brands that do not make GM gobs of money. Saab is on really thin ice along with a few other GM brands.
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  #19  
Old 29-11-05
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I would say Saab was starved for cash even before GM, it had one model (900) and had to joint venture with Fiat to even develop the 9000. Forget GM, Saab itself didn't know what to do with itself by the 90s. But without GM coming onboard in 1990 with an infusion of cash and allowing Saab to leverage its resources to develop the NG900 (which sold in great numbers), Saab would have already found itself going quickly into oblivion in the early/mid 90s with the onslaught of Asian new luxury brands (Acura, Infiniti, Lexus) as well as simply the increasingly high standards and values of their standard consumer brands. Without the NG900, I doubt very much Saab would have stood ground on its own by year 2000 and likely would have been bought by someone else anyway, if not dissolved altogether. Then the rest of us wouldn't be here now to enjoy the new 9-3 line, 9-5 and to some extent the 9-7X (purposely not mentioning the other 'Saab').

Why not look to the future, instead of dwelling on the should-haves/would-haves/could-haves of the past ?
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  #20  
Old 29-11-05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatch
GM Management... I go with very very dumb. The reason Saab is in this mess is it has been starved of cash by GM since it was bought. GM Management never knew what to do with Saab. This new GM plan for Saab should have been instituted a decade ago. Now GM is in very serious financial trouble and can no longer sustain brands that do not make GM gobs of money. Saab is on really thin ice along with a few other GM brands.
Just out of curiosity, how did GM "starve" Saab of any cash during the 10 years that it was only 50 percent owned by GM? I mean, presumably, Saab took in its own revenue (from selling cars) and paid that money out to fund its operations. GM apparently received nothing from the deal as Saab lost money all of those years. Thus, the only thing "starving" Saab of cash was its own inability to sell enough cars, don't you think?

Furthermore, Saab's costs while 100% under GM have exceeded its revenue, so I'd say GM is doing exactly the opposite. GM is financing Saab's debt, not starving it of anything. If Saab was turning a profit and GM was taking that profit and investing it in other brands, that would be starving Saab, but that was/is not the case.
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