Saab9-3ss=>Caddy BLS=>Saab9-5(Darwin Theory by GM)

[edusaab]

here we have the BLS......as you know is a rebadged 9-3ss, first step in the evolution......

ok.....let se the interior....yes is the concept, but the info of the definetly production version arrived at this moments......and its the same.




the BLS that will sell Cadillac is exactly the same......eeeeeiiiii!!!! that audio and climate controls....mmmmmmm ooooooowwwwww!!!!!! are exactly the same of the 9-5!!!!!!

Cadillac would sell this car as; The 9-3ss without rattles?? or...The Saab it must be, or.... another way to see Saab.....mmmmmmm

what the hell!!!!????? who designed that controls/panels???!!!!! Saab or GM???

the radio is clearly GM.........but the climate......anybody see those controls in any other GM product?? I downloaded the High format pics and are a ACC, with the two exterior buttons and rounded controls to control the temperature(I hate this type of controls I think that aren't Saab design, form function, remember??), in the buttons are some controls as Auto button, the direction of the air....and under them there are some other functions.....

Saab developed the ACC for the Type4 project.....its the same as Fiat, Alfa and Lancia, but remember, Saab developed it, no alfa, Lancia or Fiat, as this many other things.....remember Bob, its true that Saab is well known of its sharing components, but many of them Saab mad a big development on it. Since the 90's, with the J platform saab didn't develop or were in the development of the platform, GM only gived to Saab a finished design that with few resources, limited time can make big changes, without many flexibility to make big improvements, with the 9-3ss we saw a change in the tendency in the Saab projects, with a participation of Saab in the development of GM projects, as the Epsilon, he can put its standards in the basic design adn then make changes to arrive at the top and add value. But with the 9-2x, 9-7x and this details in the restyled 9-5, we see the same as happened in the 90's, when Saab was near to its dead(and thanks to the success of the 9-5 revived) it was unable to decide and use its technology and know how to its products and only can make minor changes on other products, as we call badge engineering. I hope as said Carl Peter-Foster this will never happen anymore, but if the Icon of Saab is degradated to this level mmmmm my level of trust it decreases a lot...

ooo I forgived......the 2006 Chevrolet Evanda, will use exactly the same audio and climate controls/panels as the 9-5, Cadillac......another to add at the list....

[edusaab]

one official pic......

quite interesting, they put two big holes for........mmmmmmm....... I imagine that in USA is more common to use cup holders, but in Europe normally are unusefull..... that's a good example of why Saab is a global brand and must adapt its designs, ideas, products, accessories.....to many markets when Cadillac is hasn't enough experience, this is a simple detail.

[edusaab]

when I see this car i feel like someone steal my soul....

http://www.cadillaceurope.com/bls/

lets see how the mags will qualify this car... I must recognize that the car has a great look, because there is something familiar, I know that under those strange and some ugly exterior forms, there is a Saab soul, something that Cadillac could perform and make a little different, but definetly I know that thanks to Saab engineering could perform quite well.

[stryker]

Well if I was a Saab engineer in Trollhattan, I would stay overnight and detach all the L badges from those cars. BLS. thats what it should be called.

[edusaab]

On detail.......if the Cadillac has a BOSE audio system, knowing that is exactly the same as used in the 2006 9-5, if not is the same, then GM is making all that is criticise in Saab, they produce the car in the same factory and don't use scale economics?? using the same panels and controls i think it would be the same audio system.... Taking that present, then the 9-5 will have a BOSE audio system. The question is, its good the BOSE system?? better or worst than the Clarion or Harmann and Kardon??

reding some audio forums, i read that the BOSE system are quite bad, in general the standard Car audio systems are not so good....but reading that the BOSE is one of those not so good systems.....its true??

[cyboexpo2002]

Well Bose has a generally good reputation in the U.S. Some of their systems are only average, and some of their others are really good. We need to know the exact system before I can tell you if it is good or not.

[SaabKen]

Acura's Bose configurations are well regarded. But of course quality would vary by vehicle.

[Stellar I]

Originally Posted by edusaab

quite interesting, they put two big holes for........mmmmmmm....... I imagine that in USA is more common to use cup holders, but in Europe normally are unusefull..... that's a good example of why Saab is a global brand and must adapt its designs, ideas, products, accessories.....to many markets when Cadillac is hasn't enough experience, this is a simple detail.

Not only is it common to have cup holders in US, but a car without is considered a bit "sub standard" by us. Like a car without electric windows or air conditioning.

Think of it this way: If some rich guy in Europe wanted to import a CTS or an Escalade, it would come with cup holders, even if they didn't need them. To them, it might be a symbol of the American-ness of their extravigent, imported vehicle.

Remember, GM's trying to make a 9-3 look like an _American_ car.

The opposite works as well, by the way. Friends get in my SAAB and notice little European details. Things that no American car would come with. I like that! (I even tollerate the barely-there cup holders... )

[edusaab]

but the problem I say is that the Cadillac is for european tastes, and if they are unable to find another way to put cupholders and make more eficient the use of space.......I think that they take as a reference the Mercedes M class and its cupholders...

another detail....the SAHR/head restraint are the same as the 9-3 convertible, another way to make a difference from the 9-3 but using another Saab part....the door handles come from the Opel Vectra, and the key its in the worst place, quite irritanting when you have the key with a key ring.

Another question is, where is the On board computer and in this case, the SID/profiler and all the info is offered in there....it seems that now all this info is ofered in the instrument cluster, under the speedometer(in the high resolution pic I see the exterior temperature in there), I think that in the 9-5 will be very similar.

[Stellar I]

Originally Posted by edusaab

but the problem I say is that the Cadillac is for european tastes, and if they are unable to find another way to put cupholders and make more eficient the use of space.......I think that they take as a reference the Mercedes M class and its cupholders...

Well... I'm sure the thinking went something like this:
1. The cheapest way to include cup holders is to mold wells into the plastic somewhere. It works out to be about 0Euros/unit. Can't beat that!
2. Placing them smack in the center of everything is the most efficient place for them if used as an American would... That is to say, "constantly". They're pretty much the same place as in my old Chevy Blazer, and those were the best cup holders I ever had from a functionality standpoint (a ringing endorsement, yes?). You're probably right it's a waste for an European audience though.

I'm not familiar with the M class, so I did a Google search on "Mercedes M Class cupholder" The M class cuphoders get a "mixed review" at best. Lots of complaints about blocking vision to the side mirrors, etc. And I note they've relocated them to the center console in the 2006 model.

Originally Posted by edusaab

and the key its in the worst place, quite irritanting when you have the key with a key ring.

Where does the key go? Behind the wheel, I suppose. I hate that too...

Originally Posted by edusaab

Another question is, where is the On board computer and in this case, the SID/profiler and all the info is offered in there....it seems that now all this info is ofered in the instrument cluster, under the speedometer(in the high resolution pic I see the exterior temperature in there), I think that in the 9-5 will be very similar.

Yes. The 9-7X also places the SID info on the spedometer cluster. If the passenger is interested in that info, they're out of luck, I guess. It's a shame, the location of SID is one of my favorite features of the 9-3SS interior.

[SaabKen]

The C900 (shift indicator/fuel economy display) and the 9000's SID are also in the instrument cluster (except for those with the digital clock/SCC which is on the dash clock). At the end of the day, how many passengers are actually interested in looking at the SID info anyway (except maybe another Saaber in your car) ?

Originally Posted by Stellar I

Yes. The 9-7X also places the SID info on the spedometer cluster. If the passenger is interested in that info, they're out of luck, I guess. It's a shame, the location of SID is one of my favorite features of the 9-3SS interior.

[Swade]

Geez that Caddy is ugly.

How anyone with a brain in their head could look at that Caddy and a 9-3 and choose the Caddy is beyond my comprehension. It seems I am a mere mortal after all.

[SaabKen]

All the better for the 9-3 in terms of its appeal to Euro customers !

BLS .... sheesh, if Caddy added the word "Touring" it'd be the Bacon Lettuce Tomato Sandwich !

Originally Posted by Swade

Geez that Caddy is ugly.
How anyone with a brain in their head could look at that Caddy and a 9-3 and choose the Caddy is beyond my comprehension. It seems I am a mere mortal after all.

[Swade]

Hmmmmm


BLS
BS
BLT
BRP
BLRB

Someone called it the BLS. The scary part is that whoever did it gets paid to do things like that.

I guess GM is doing what they did with the 9-7x in North America to the BLS in Europe. Cadillac needed a smaller car fast and cheap, so they took the underutilized Trollhattan factory and the just-right sized 9-3 to make something that's completely against current Cadillac philosophy--- a turbocharged (or turbodiesel) front wheel drive car. Somewhere, there are Cadillac puritans howling. Doesn't this remind you of something?

[edusaab]

I was referring to the new Mercedes, not the old, in the new as you can see they put cupholders in the middle of the transmision tunel.

With those big holes, are useful for American tastes, we are agree of that completely. But the problem is that the synergies are used to reduce costs and make more standard process and parts, commonly on those that are well known and are basically anf can be homogeneus, that permits to spend the resources to make the important features of the product able to adapt to the local tastes and customize it.

The problem i see in that Cadillac is that you cannot try to introduce in the market with a car that is unable to achieve the minimum tastes of the market.

This is a simple detail that demostrates how interest is taked in the development of this car to meet the local tastes. You can apply your philosophy, ideas and many features to add value to your car and to be different to the rest, and this makes you different from the rest of the competence and add value to your product, but today in a competitive and mature market are you unable to adapt your requeriments and meet those of the market....
yes, its a simple detail, those big holes can be used to load many things as keys, coins, key rings, sunglasses and Cups, but the problem is....Cadillac, you can make it better?? you can make it more functional??

for example in the 9-3, rear the key fob, you have an space that can be closed and is very useful to place some objects, better than those cup holders, that are bigger but in curves I am sure that the objects will move al the time and make an irritating sound, then all the job that Cadillac makes to reduce the external sound.........

About the SID and on board computer.....I have a 9000, and my father have a 9-5, and I drive a 9-3ss.....I definetly prefer the SID of the 9-3ss, near the "horizon view" easy and fast, also it helps that the Display is big.

greetings

[edusaab]

apzer09............yes its the same as Saab did with the 9-7x and 9-2x, to launch quickly and with low investment a new model, but with a big difference.....

the 9-2x and 9-7x are based on old platforms, yes the Imprezza and Trail Blazer are the last version of th respective platforms, but both are models with many years and need a replacement.

Cadillac take as a base the best of the Epsilon platform, why they don't take the Opel Vectra??? GM is al the time talking about scale economics and how Saab reduced it thanks to the changes in the basic design, also its an opportunity to take an advantage of the Trollhattan plant....during the 90's made the most important invesment in its history, planning to pass from a capacity of 140000 units per year to over 250000, but now this plan is unuseful, thats the reason why the plant is working at only the 55% of its capacity, Russelheim is working at 60% of its capacity. As we say here "they killed two birds with one shoot". How many units will do in a year?? 500?? that not makes a big difference for trollhattan, the forecast of Cadillac in Europe is to arrive at 20000 sales in 2010....

[SaabKen]

Yeah, re-badged Saabs ..... who'd want those anyway ?

Originally Posted by apzer09

I guess GM is doing what they did with the 9-7x in North America to the BLS in Europe. Cadillac needed a smaller car fast and cheap, so they took the underutilized Trollhattan factory and the just-right sized 9-3 to make something that's completely against current Cadillac philosophy--- a turbocharged (or turbodiesel) front wheel drive car. Somewhere, there are Cadillac puritans howling. Doesn't this remind you of something?