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  #1  
Old 14th June 2005
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maallen40 maallen40 is offline
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Default Convertible top wont go up or down

Hi guys. Lately when lowering my top I have noticed when I press the button nothing happens right away, then after a few seconds...it will lower. But if I take my finger off the button before the top has lowered, and continue pressing again. it wont lower, but will raise.
Now this morning it won't go up or down. I don't hear the roof motor, nor feel a drain on the battery. Nothiing.
Since this is my first convertible I am learning as I go.
I checked the 25 amp fuse under the hood, it was corroded and I changed it with a new one. Still nothing.
Last week I bled the system and noticed a few relays near the roof motor.
Can someone help me with a 1,2,3 of what I should be checking?
I have heard that there is a up relay and a down relay...is this true? Since it wont open or close, how can I check the relay?
Thanks for any help.

Later

Michael
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  #2  
Old 14th June 2005
JonV JonV is offline
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check and clean the switch and check the fuse holder connections....see if the fuse is passing current,,,it happened to me, one side was corroded

to raise and lower the top manually, open the trunk....look to the right front and you will find a carpet flap, behind the flap is a valve, open it all the way to manually raise and lower the top.

hope that helps...

j

Last edited by JonV; 14th June 2005 at 06:48 PM.
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  #3  
Old 14th June 2005
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cdaly cdaly is offline
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Yes, I believe there is both up and down relays. They are located under the rear seat, near the motor. Testing works like this:
Switch on ignition and check that you have a 'handbrake on' light illuminated on the dash. The top won't work without that light on.

Remove rear seat and, with ignition on, try the switch both up and down. You should hear one or other relay click. IIRC, each relay provides either 12V or ground to the motor, depending on up or down. If one relay is not working due to a bad coil, you'll get motion in only one direction. If a relay has a burned out contact, you'll get no action in either direction. In either case, you should hear at least one relay click.

Check the state of the switch itself. Take it out and test the connections with a multimeter set on 'resistance'. I can't remember which pins are which so you'll have to find that out. Open up the switch {carefully, the internal lightbulb is soldered in there somewhere and there are springs to pop out} and clean the terminals of dirt and corrosion. Lightly grease with Vaseline or such.

It's quite possible that it's only the switch and that everything will be fine after.

You can do a manual test of the motor bypassing the relays as follows. Take care, it might be possible to blow fuses if you short the wrong contacts.
  1. Switch on ignition.
  2. Remove both relays. Identify the socket for the 'up' relay and for the 'down' relay.
  3. Identify contacts 30, 87 and 87a in each relay socket.
  4. For each relay, use a multimeter to identify which contact is 12V. It should be one of 87 or 87a and should be the same for both.
  5. Use the multimeter to identify which contact is connected to ground. This should be the other of 87 and 87a and should be the same for both.
  6. Use the multimeter to check that contact 30 is neither at 12V nor connected to ground.
  7. If contact 30 is at 12V or ground for either relay, stop here 'cos I've got it wrong and you might do some damage. Otherwise:
  8. On the 'down' relay socket, use a jumper wire to connect the ground contact to contact 30. On the 'up' relay socket, connect the 12V contact to contact 30. The motor should attempt to raise the roof. Disconnect both jumpers.
  9. On the 'up' relay socket, connect the ground contact to contact 30. On the 'down' relay socket, connect the 12V contact to contact 30. The motor should attempt to lower the roof. Disconnect both jumpers.
  10. If all that works, the motor is fine
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  #4  
Old 14th June 2005
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eggsngrits eggsngrits is offline
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Jon has given solid advice -- my guess is the switch.

You can test this by pulling one of the back window switches and plugging into the top to see if it will raise and lower the top. The switches should be interchangeable.

Yes, there are two relays -- one for up and one for down. They are under the back seat near the hydraulic pump/motor combo. You can test them by swapping them with each other, but I don't think that's the problem here.
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  #5  
Old 14th June 2005
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Okay. I took out the rear passenger window switch and changed it with the roof switch. Nothing.

I did replace the 25 amp fuse with a new one before I started anything.
Seconds ago the sky got dark and we are having a downpour as I type. Once it's over, I will remove the back seat and check for a sound "clicking" from the relay.

I too am thinking it may be the switch even though the rear passenger switch didn't do anything.

There is a guy about 2 hours drive from where I am "the saab depot" who actually has all the relays and switches I may need, but before I spend money, I need to find out exactly whats up here.......and to do that ...It has to stop raining.

Thanks guys....will let you know whats up after the storm
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  #6  
Old 14th June 2005
Marcos Marcos is offline
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I don't think the roof switch and the window switch are intercheangable, although I'm not absolutely sure.

I can hear the relays in my car click with the seat on... since my switch is half on the fritz, the open will work only if you press it so, it's my indication that I've pushed that side at the right angle. For some reason, and I don't know why, if I'm lowering the top (bad switch side) and it stops, nine out of ten times I will have to raise the top all the way before I can lower it.

My money is on the switch too.

Another way to verify this is to identify the relays, remove them and take the plastic cover off and then *very carefully* manually 'activate' them to move the top. Make sure you use steady gentle pressure, enough to fully close the contacts, or you may pit them or burn your finger with the resulting arc. Do this only one switch at the time or you'll blow a fuse.

Good luck.
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  #7  
Old 14th June 2005
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Well I just went out in the rain. I cannot hear the relays clicking with the seat on, but then again, the rain is coming down so hard it's all I hear.

I read somewhere that the switches were interchangable except the drivers side window switch ( something about that switch has that one touch down thingy )(mine doesn't)

The more I read all of your comments, and my symptoms...I'm leaning towards a failed switch.

Michael


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos
I don't think the roof switch and the window switch are intercheangable, although I'm not absolutely sure.

I can hear the relays in my car click with the seat on... since my switch is half on the fritz, the open will work only if you press it so, it's my indication that I've pushed that side at the right angle. For some reason, and I don't know why, if I'm lowering the top (bad switch side) and it stops, nine out of ten times I will have to raise the top all the way before I can lower it.

My money is on the switch too.

Another way to verify this is to identify the relays, remove them and take the plastic cover off and then *very carefully* manually 'activate' them to move the top. Make sure you use steady gentle pressure, enough to fully close the contacts, or you may pit them or burn your finger with the resulting arc. Do this only one switch at the time or you'll blow a fuse.

Good luck.
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  #8  
Old 14th June 2005
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eggsngrits eggsngrits is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos
I don't think the roof switch and the window switch are intercheangable, although I'm not absolutely sure.
On a car that has discrete window switches the window switches (except that front switch with autodown) are interchangeable with the convertible top and sunroof switches. Operationally. There are costmetic differences.

I believe the 'switch pack' came during the 1989 or beginning with the 1990 model year. Those will not interchange.
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  #9  
Old 15th June 2005
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggsngrits
On a car that has discrete window switches the window switches (except that front switch with autodown) are interchangeable with the convertible top and sunroof switches. Operationally. There are costmetic differences.

I believe the 'switch pack' came during the 1989 or beginning with the 1990 model year. Those will not interchange.
I've an 89 vert, and the switches certainly don't look like they would swap.
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  #10  
Old 15th June 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos
I've an 89 vert, and the switches certainly don't look like they would swap.
Have you removed them and looked at the bottom? They have the same connector.

I'm talking just for testing, not permanent installation.

Again, if you have the switch pack, this will not work. Only if you have four individual switches for the windows.
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Last edited by eggsngrits; 15th June 2005 at 03:35 PM.
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  #11  
Old 15th June 2005
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Well I'm at wits end . I replaced the switch, and tested the relays with a spare. Nothing. I cleaned the fuse holder and put in a new 25 amp fuse. Still nothing. So now Im thinking the moter is shot. I checked the switch at the end of the parking brake. It is clean and when the parking brake is activated. The light comes on on the dash.
So I guess its the moter....


Michael
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  #12  
Old 15th June 2005
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did you jumper the relay sockets?

A $14 multimeter is going to be way cheaper than a motor. Why not start checking voltages etc?...
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  #13  
Old 15th June 2005
JonV JonV is offline
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to check the motor, disconnect it from the systems wiring and apply voltage,,,,,
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  #14  
Old 15th June 2005
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maallen40 maallen40 is offline
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I'll be honest with you. I don't know how to use a multimeter.
but disconnecting the motor and applying 12 volts to it....thats something I can do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cdaly
did you jumper the relay sockets?

A $14 multimeter is going to be way cheaper than a motor. Why not start checking voltages etc?...
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  #15  
Old 15th June 2005
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maallen40 maallen40 is offline
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You mean cut those 2 wires coming from the motor itself, then connecting 12 volts to it? That I can do.
Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonV
to check the motor, disconnect it from the systems wiring and apply voltage,,,,,
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  #16  
Old 9th July 2005
cneglia cneglia is offline
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Default Did you get it fixed?

I am having a similar problem with my top. I can hear a click coming from the rear area of the car but the top is not going up or down. What did you ever find out?

Merged post:

Yesterday my wife's convertible top stopped working. It's a 1993 Turbo. I can hear a click coming from under the top but the motor is not engaging. Is there a common problem with these tops that I should start with? Any known problems or experiences would be great.

Thanks in advance.....

Last edited by Jezzadee; 9th July 2005 at 02:56 AM.
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