Query: Diesel or gas

[Swade]

How many of you UK based Saabers have a diesel? Any of you? There must be some as UK sales are increasing so much. Is it any good?

If you're in the US, what do you think would be the level of interest in a diesel variant if Saab brought it out there?

Just interested to know. Diesel sales grew in the US by around 50% in the last 5 years. Would it be good for Saab to get in on this growing market sector that has huge upside potential in the US. The models are already in place in the global lineup.

Background article here, but if you're in the US - would you consider the diesel 9-3?? If you're in the UK, how good are they??

[900t]

I have heard much interest about diesel Saab models in the USA.

In fact, someone imported a 9-3 TiD 2.2 in time for last years Saab Owner's Convention. It was blue.

It later turned up on ebay for USD 500 000 - I kid you not!

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by Swade

If you're in the US, what do you think would be the level of interest in a diesel variant if Saab brought it out there?

I would love one. If it would come as a hatchback I would sell a kidney to get one .

[Swade]

Originally Posted by 900t

It later turned up on ebay for USD 500 000 - I kid you not!

I assume it didn't sell....

[900t]

Fred bought his 9^3SS TID in Sweden and brought it home so it can be
done. Just a little painful to wait the umteen months to get it legal.
He and Dave visited 14 dealers with it to and from our trip to Crystal
Mtn to try and drum up a groundswell of dealer requests to SCUSA.

Ms Debra ..... didn't seem to even comprehend what he was telling her
(unfortunately) at the SOC Banquet Sat night. I think he may have even
showed her the car.

She came in a Suburban. Makes us wonder why the local Saab dealers in
Seattle couldn't have even provided a Saab for her to drive from SEATAC
to the SOC. And Erik came in a Caddy. So ditto there.

Must have cost the 1/2 mil just to import past the regs...

[Raven18940]

Living in the US I can tell you the market for diesels is almost nil. I love the concept of diesels, you can't get a more efficient engine. Though I must admit I have reservations about servicing a diesel as I don't know what maintainence would entail and whether or not I could do it. For an everyday car you can't beat the efficency of those things. And the torque, *drool*. I don't rev my engine more than 4000 rpms anyway.

So I'd be interested in a diesel, but not til 2007 when low sulfur diesel becomes standard in the US.

[Swade]

Originally Posted by Raven18940

So I'd be interested in a diesel, but not til 2007 when low sulfur diesel becomes standard in the US.

I heard about this low-sulfur thing from a commenter on the blog. What's the story? (Pardon my ignoramus question, but I'm in Oz).

[900t]

Sulfur is present in "dirty" fuel stocks.

It also lubricates critical diesel engine components, and burns up other stuff.

So the oil companies took most of the sulfur and put it in the diesel fuel, to keep diesel engines running well. However by the late 1980's the technology was such that sulfur was not as necessary, and on a non-injection pump diesel (ie a common-rail or a pumpe-duse) you don't really need any sulfur at all. In Sweden the sulfur content is under 50 ppm, here it is more like 500ppm. And the high-sulfur fuel basically destroys the newer engines...

Similar to the tetraethyl lead in gasoline. Early cars needed the extra octane and the lubricity on the exhaust valves. Put lead in a new car and you've poisoned the catalyst and O2 sensor.

[GRIPEN]

Since gas prices getting expensive, Diesel engines are making a big come back here in Canada. VW sold alot of Jetta TDi here and even Mercedes E class diesel. some of my colleage commutes more than 60km a day to go to work and they don't have any regrets on diesel engines since you can get almost twice of the mileage per tank. I think it's time for Saab to bring diesels here.

[Mattlach]

I have absolutely no interest in deisel at all.

It would take an extreme increase in gasoline prices to make me consider diesel, and even then I think Ethanol is cooler

[aero1116]

I don't think the US will catch the diesel bug anytime soon. So far, I've only seen a couple of jetta tdi's and one e320 diesel. I read that there will be a new mercedes sl500 diesel coming out. It's supposed to be just as fast as the gasoline version. Forgot the website it was on though...

[midway]

Yeah, and people bid big money for a slice of toast on ebay too.

I would have to say no, baaaad idea. Been there, done that with a diesel car. Here's why: Diesel fuel is more expensive than gas where I live and the milage difference does not make up for the costs. In the winter it regularly gets cold enough for diesel fuel to gel despite additives (hello, triple A?). It is virtually impossible to find a competant diesel mechanic for small engines. Once they get good they go to work for trucking companies or truck garages, and those folk will not work on cars...no money in it. My city has dumped all diesel vehicles with the exception of heavy equipment and large trucks for the above reasons. Finally, the EPA is "growing concerned" over the amount of diesel pollutants in urban areas. Now who do you think is going to take it on the neck, a multi billion $ diesel truck industry or a few diesel car owners?
Diesel Saabs will end up being just one more things factory trained Saab mechanics can't fix properly. Just like diesel Mercedes, diesel Volkswagons, diesel GM's, Diesel Fords, etc.

[Mattlach]

Originally Posted by midway

Yeah, and people bid big money for a slice of toast on ebay too.

I would have to say no, baaaad idea. Been there, done that with a diesel car. Here's why: Diesel fuel is more expensive than gas where I live and the milage difference does not make up for the costs.

Yeah In many European countries it makes a lot of sense though, cause often the state taxes levied on diesel are lower than the ones on gas, so it costs less per gallon, and get's much better milage.

In Europe they have "cleaner" diesel than we do here, so the milage difference is much better...

[Raven18940]

Originally Posted by Mattlach

I have absolutely no interest in deisel at all.

It would take an extreme increase in gasoline prices to make me consider diesel, and even then I think Ethanol is cooler

Ethanol, mmmmmmm....Octane. The performance driver in me is very interested as well. The logical person in me thinks Biodiesel will be better in the long run, but only if it catches on.

[eggsngrits]

Originally Posted by 900t

Sulfur is present in "dirty" fuel stocks.

In Sweden the sulfur content is under 50 ppm, here it is more like 500ppm. And the high-sulfur fuel basically destroys the newer engines...

Not to mention all of the SO2 and SO3 (SO3 plus water = H2SO4, sulfuric acid) that creates that nasty acid rain. Of course, some gets converted in the cat converter, but still enough gets out to make a difference, especially as the car ages.

Diesel would have to come a long way for me to be interested, too.

Ethanol is renewable, but the fumes can be just as noxious as gasoline exhaust and the engine components are subjected to more extreme conditions.

I hate to admit it, but electric cars are coming. They may be fuel cell powered, but they will be electric drive. That seems to be the rational thing.

[Mattlach]

Originally Posted by eggsngrits

I hate to admit it, but electric cars are coming. They may be fuel cell powered, but they will be electric drive. That seems to be the rational thing.

Diesel-electric locomotive

[timmehhhhhh]

i third the ethanol

[Swade]

Maybe the question will come down to Ethanol (Biopower, a-la the 9-5 being released in Sweden) and diesel. I'd imagine there's already a distribution infrastructure in place for diesel in the US, however, which might make it difficult for E85 to take hold.

Either way, Saab's in place with both of them, so at least there's a choice to run with.

[Swade]

Originally Posted by timmehhhhhh

i third the ethanol

Timmehhhhhh (or anyone else),

Do you know if there's any legal restrictions (emissions stuff) in CA that would effect the use of E85? I've recently found there are such restrictions on diesel in 5 US states.

[eggsngrits]

Originally Posted by Swade

might make it difficult for E85 to take hold.

Either way, Saab's in place with both of them, so at least there's a choice to run with.

E85 would likely be refined / distilled by the same companies that currently supply ethanol for blended gasoline/ethanol motor fuel used in mountain states in the Western US (Colorado, Wyoming, etc.), so I would imagine that it would just take more capacity.

And, virtually all major manufacturers have ethanol engines available. In Brazil, and presumably other locations, ethanol has been a motor fuel of choice for sometime. Most models available there are available as gasoline or ethanol fueled.