v4 noise from the front of the engine

[madmark]

hi , i need some good advice , i have a 1.7v4 engine that has only done 15,000miles from new its a 1976, i am getting a sort of clonking noise from the engine it sounds like fan bearing in the front cover but take the fanbelt off and it still does it ,could it be the ballance shaft bearings or fibre gears???? it is a great shame as the engine sounds very well apart from this noise she is fitted to a german ford transit so it has the single choke carb ! also is the oil pump the same as the ford v6 2.8 engine ? and were can i get parts for this engine if i need them ,many manythanks for your help!.
mark

[enor]

There are 2 basic line-ups among Ford V engines - the "Essex" series and the "Cologne" series. Both series has a V4 engine, unfortunately they share very very few parts and they don't interchange at all.

The Transit uses the Essex engine, which is the least reliable out of the two. The Saab 96 uses the Cologne engine.

The 2,8 found in Granadas and Scorpios (among others) is a Cologne engine.

[madmark]

hi ,mine is running a cologne engine 1.7 as i bourt her back from germany and then i have converted it to right hand drive!
i had the engine warm lastnight and got my engine listerning tool out (like a doctors stethascope) and went all over the the engine and cant seem to work out were its comeing from! i would take a guess and say firbre gear but do they make a noise when they are about to strip the teeth???? it is defernatly not a small end ,or bigend ,or main bearing sound, so its gota be balance shaft or cam i would have thourt ,it is strange that most poeple have not come acros this noise in there v4,s !

[enor]

Originally Posted by madmark

hi ,mine is running a cologne engine 1.7 as i bourt her back from germany

Are you 100% sure of this?? To my knowledge, no Transits were built with the Cologne engine, regardless of country of manufacture. It's not just a matter of where the engine was built, mind you, they are completely different engines - all the way down to the bell housing bolt pattern. They will not bolt up to each other's transmissions. Did Ford really make 2 completely different engine/transmission combos for the Transit??? Sounds VERY unlikely to me.

If the essex engine is anything like the cologne engine though, your noise most likely is the balance shaft front bearing going out.

[madmark]

hi mate yes she is a cologne v4 engine the distribtor is at the rear of the engine , it is a 1.7 not a 2ltr like we had in england ,for some reason the germans fitted this to all there erly transits , i wanted one with the english engine ,but couldnt find one in germany , i bourt the van from germany as it has been a volantry fire department vehicle for 29yrs and the body has no rust ,in england finding a transit with no rust of this year (1976) is not posible as such, although the engine has low miles it has worked hard carrying the weight of 6 fireman and all the bits in the van ! i am very limited to the room under the bonet i might be able to sqeese in a 2.8 v6 but am very short on room! and i dont want to change the front of the van! to get a bigger engine in! thats why if i can keep the v4 it will be better for me, my other option is to get hold of a 2ltr esex engine ! i would post you a picture of the engine but dont know how to ! .mark

[enor]

Well there ya go! Amazing, I was not aware of this.

However, like I said, if you do go for a 2 ltr essex, you need to change transmissions too as it won't fit on a cologne box.

[Fliptop]

Assuming the noise is definitely coming from the front of the engine, then I'd suggest the following:

You can test the balance shaft bearings by grabbing hold of the pulley on the front of the engine & seeing if there is any lateral play in the shaft. If so, the bearings are shot and your fibre gear is likely to go next. If not, then the most likely culprit after the fan bearing is the water pump - again check for play in the pulley and/or signs of leakage. These don't cope well if the fan belt is too tight, puts excess strain on the (very simple) water pump.

You're sure it's not the bottom end?

BTW this isn't the first time I've heard of Trannies with this engine, but nobody has ever been able to actually show me one before! If you decide to ditch it for an Essex motor, then a) BIG mistake and b) let me know - I'd like your crank!

[madmark]

hi fliptop , mate i have checked the bottom pulley there is move ment in it side to side do you think that is fibre wheels ?????? the crank is very good no grubling etc the engine has only done 15k from new ,the longest trip it had was bringing it back from germany 600miles ,she ran with no problems attal i was very shocked that it made it home ! i dont want to get rid of the engine if i can help it as it sounds so much better that the engilsh engine did! but if i do yes you can have it no problems! what sort of oil preshure should it run at ??? i need to put a gauge on it , if you lift the clutch up to quick so it nearly stalls the oil light will flicker! do they run low preshure?????? .mark

[Fliptop]

That side to side (lateral) play is the bearings. There are 2, front & back. What happens is, as they wear, this lateral movement stops the fibre gear meshing properly and eventually it will strip. Not the end of the world but a PITA. You need new bearings, asap.

WRT oil pressure, you should get 25psi+ at idle and 45psi above about 2000rpm - that's the max as that's when the pressure relief valve in a standard 1500 engine will open. Your engine may have a stiffer spring so you may get higher max P.


HTH

[madmark]

manythanks mate for your help, looks like the engine will have to come out soon, i wonder if i can get the barings done without stripping the hole engine apart??? would i be able to fit them my self or is it a enginer job????, it seems strange that the bareings have gone in such a low mileage engine when i got it it had only done about 1500 miles on the oil that was in it! , i will take the front cover off first , the play is in the crank pully from side to side but not much just if you try to turn it back and forth you can feel there is play! i wonder if the oil pump is the same as a 2.8??????.
mark

[Fliptop]

To replace the bearings you need to remove front cover & sump, line up the marks on the timing gears to aid refitting, remove the fibre gear off the balance shaft, remove the shaft, knock out the bearings with a suitable tool (you can do it carefully with a thin screwdriver but better to use something less likely to score the journal) - the bearings are a single smooth surfaced ring a bit like shells but all in one, and usually come as a "C" where the two ends clip into place to make an "O".

Last bearings I got were from a supplier in Wrexham Industrial Estate, can't remember which.

Fit the new bearings by drifting into place with wooden mallet or similar. Replace shaft & fibre gear (you can only refit in the right place now if nothing has moved - the gear is keyed onto the shaft), clean the sump of any crud that's accumulated, replace sump & front covers with new gaskets & oil/filter.

You need to check for wear on the shaft before ordering the correct size bearing.

AFAIK the 2.8 Cologne engine has a compatible oil pump. Burton or someone like that will be able to confirm. Good luck!

BTW - the pulley is on the end of the balance shaft, not the crank. Wear in these bearings at such a low mileage isn't too surprising given the age - it's not been used much and they may have got dry enough to corrode. Also, you don't know what quality oil or filters have been used, or if the mileage is genuine?!

[madmark]

manythanks mate ,for your help pm me your email addresss and i will send you a picture of the engine , i will take the front cover off soon to investigate it is a shame to take the engine out , as i have only just put all the front back on the van after converting it to right hand drive but i dont want to loose the engine if i can help it as it adds to the originalty of the van !.mark