Subaru & Saab 9-7 Colaboration

[Buddhabman]

New 7 passenger to be shared with Saab

(08:39 July 12, 2004)
Subaru dealers seeing red over plan to share high-end SUV with Saab


By DIANA T. KURYLKO | Automotive News

A plan to share Subaru's new premium-priced, seven-passenger SUV with Saab has Subaru dealers seeing red.

Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. said last week that it will build a Saab version of the high-end XUV at its Subaru of Indiana Automotive plant in Lafayette, Ind.

Subaru dealers have been waiting years for the seven-seater, which is scheduled to arrive in the second quarter of 2005.

The joint vehicle project is the second between the two General Motors affiliates. Saab recently launched its 9-2X sports compact, which is based on the Subaru Impreza WRX and is built by Fuji Heavy in Japan.

But the latest deal has Subaru's retailers up in arms.

"I don't like it. It is a blow to the Subaru dealers in the United States," says Dale Walker, vice chairman of the Subaru dealer council and owner of Walker's Renton Subaru in Renton, Wash. "How many of these product-sharing ventures have worked long-term? There is no benefit to the Subaru dealers."

Fuji Heavy officials say the two vehicles will be designed separately but will share Subaru's all-wheel-drive platform. Both will be built in Lafayette.

"This collaboration provides many benefits such as economies of scale and higher joint volume for Fuji Heavy's U.S. manufacturing facility," Fuji Heavy President Kyoji Takenaka said in a statement.

Many Subaru dealers, though, see it as a disaster.

"It is very discouraging after U.S. dealers have made the commitments to facility upgrades," Walker says. "A tremendous number of dealers have spent hundreds of thousands or millions building new facilities or upgrading existing ones - all with the thought that we have new product.

"Now we're told the vehicle we have been asking for and waiting on for so many years will be shared with a GM affiliate. It is a tremendous blow."

Frank Ferrogine, who spent more than $5 million on a new Subaru store in Annapolis, Md., that opened July 5, thinks it's a terrible idea.

"I don't think any of us are pleased about it," says Ferrogine, a Subaru dealer since 1991. "We would prefer that product be proprietary to the Subaru brand. No one is thrilled with sharing products with Saab."

Fuji Heavy is pushing Subaru of America to move upscale as rapidly as possible. Dealers say sharing the brand's top-of-the-line product will make it tougher.

"Fuji wants Subaru to move up into a premium brand," says Walker. "How do you become a premium brand when you share your product? There are many dealers who feel this way."

Subaru of America spokesman Mike Wheelan says company officials were informed of the deal only on the day it was announced by Fuji Heavy. He says the negotiations were between GM and Fuji Heavy.

GM owns 100 percent of Saab and has a 20 percent stake in Fuji Heavy.

"This allows us to make the best use of plant capacity," Wheelan says. "Each one will have unique characteristics."

Wheelan says Subaru will get the vehicle first, in the second quarter of 2005.

Fuji Heavy plans to price the XUV above $35,000. It expects it to compete with such models as the BMW X5 and the Volvo XC90.

Subaru's version was styled by Fuji Heavy's new chief designer, Andreas Zapatinas, who has worked at Alfa Romeo, BMW, Fiat and Pininfarina.

The SUV will debut a family look that will appear on all Subarus. Company executives say it will signal a dramatic shift in Subaru design.

Some Subaru retailers are resigned to the Saab deal.

"It all depends on what the differences are between the Saab and the Subaru vehicle," says dealer council chairman Kirk Schneider, owner of Nate Wade Subaru in Salt Lake City.

Ernie Boch Jr., CEO of independent distributor Subaru New England, says: "In today's world it is difficult for an independent to stay independent. It is healthy for the franchise. Subaru will take technology from GM."

By 2006, Fuji Heavy will raise annual production at Lafayette to 160,000, from about 110,000 now.

In 2006, Fuji Heavy plans to build 108,000 units of the Legacy, Outback and Baja and 36,000 units of the XUV. That will leave room for about 16,000 units a year of the Saab model.

Asked if Fuji Heavy is concerned about cannibalization between the models, a company official in Japan said Subaru and Saab generally do not compete for the same customers.

He cited a recent survey showing that Saab customers didn't consider Subaru models when they bought Saabs and vice versa. The official said the two models "should be quite different."

But Walker still thinks it's a big mistake: "It will be the first SUV - a true one - for us and Saab. You look for this vehicle to be your flagship and to take you to next level. Who shares their flagship?"

Staff Reporter Yuzo Yamaguchi in Japan contributed to this report

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...t_code=06219488

[fabric]

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

But Walker still thinks it's a big mistake: "It will be the first SUV - a true one - for us and Saab. You look for this vehicle to be your flagship and to take you to next level. Who shares their flagship?"

When was the last time Honda referred to there $35K Pilot as their "Flagship."

[sethsev7n]

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

"How many of these product-sharing ventures have worked long-term? There is no benefit to the Subaru dealers."

How many of the 9-2x models sold last month? I went to my dealer the other day to see one and i almost didnt get to see any because they only had 2.. and they havent moved in weeks.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

Fuji Heavy plans to price the XUV above $35,000. It expects it to compete with such models as the BMW X5 and the Volvo XC90.

I don't see Subaru coming out with a project that could compete with the X5 in a looong time. They don't have the quality OR the brand image that BMW or Volvo have. Not even close.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

Subaru's version was styled by Fuji Heavy's new chief designer, Andreas Zapatinas, who has worked at Alfa Romeo, BMW, Fiat and Pininfarina.
The SUV will debut a family look that will appear on all Subarus. Company executives say it will signal a dramatic shift in Subaru design.

Dramatic shift? If it looks anything like this id say it would be a dramatic disaster! Any hope of competing with BMW or even the Saab cousin of the 7-seater is long gone if this comes out.. yech! were they drunk when they did these PS renderings?

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

Asked if Fuji Heavy is concerned about cannibalization between the models, a company official in Japan said Subaru and Saab generally do not compete for the same customers.

HAHA! Someone remind me what the purpose of the 9-2x Saaburu was? Something about drawing urban young males that would normally buy a WRX but wanted something a bit more "upscale". And another thing, GM thought they could make the WRX upscale by putting a saab badge on it? What were these cretians thinking? I drove one, examined the interior, everything, and its not even close to being "upscale" in the quality and comfort levels of what bmw and lexus are putting out. In fact its not even close to what Saab used to put out.

Unfortunately, GM wont really kill Saab. I highly doubt it. But they will take away their premium image, for good. They were very close to fitting right in with the volvos and bmw's for awhile, but I dont see that happening anymore, not with the current trends. I expect the 9-7 to be competing with the pacifica.

[Buddhabman]

sethsev7n - All those quotes are from Automotive News report.

But you said :
"I don't see Subaru coming out with a project that could compete with the X5 in a looong time. They don't have the quality OR the brand image that BMW or Volvo have. Not even close."

You are kidding right! To each his own.

The X5 is the biggest waste of money in the SUV market. Ok not quite the biggest. But if you want to go spend your money on one, "A fool and his money can soon be parted". Yes the 4.4 and 4.8 are nice but so is 50-60K cash. You talking quality with that, come on you are on vapors. Check the i-boards, check Edmunds or Consumer Reports. Now as to Volvo, granted nice interiors and safety, but driving experience and quality is sketchy. The only car that is a decent handler that can keep tracks with the old version Legacy is the new S60/V70 R.

The new Subaru Legacy / Outback (Not to mention the Forester) will outrun, out handle, out safety(check crash reports from Australia and coming from US) the X5 and Volvo wagons. The new interiors are much improved and are on par with that price point segment.

And then you said:
"Dramatic shift? If it looks anything like this id say it would be a dramatic disaster! Any hope of competing with BMW or even the Saab cousin of the 7-seater is long gone if this comes out.. yech! were they drunk when they did these PS renderings?"

That rendering from last years Car Connection has been pretty universally dismissed as not accurate. I certainly hope so too.

HAHA! Someone remind me what the purpose of the 9-2x Saaburu was? Something about drawing urban young males that would normally buy a WRX but wanted something a bit more "upscale". And another thing, GM thought they could make the WRX upscale by putting a saab badge on it? What were these cretians thinking? I drove one, examined the interior, everything, and its not even close to being "upscale" in the quality and comfort levels of what bmw and lexus are putting out. In fact its not even close to what Saab used to put out.

Saab needed AWD and now they have it. To your credit you are a contrarian :-?, but most reviews have been positive towards the Saaburu 9-2. I have driven a 9-2 Aero and a IS300 and a 325; there is very little differnece in material quality, and the size and comfort are equal. The IS300 is nice but I have to contort to get in. The driving experience of the WRX/9-2 far out shines either of those cars.

:wink: You have really lost it if you think that Saab has anything in the past besides a Viggen that can keep up with a 9-2. The cars that Saab has put out since 2002 are much better than the cars before that. I like Saab, I own a 2003 Aero wagon, but my old 99 Legacy GT even with lack of power would have killed the old 900/9000 and non-Aero 9-5's on a curvy road. Not even close. Don't even get started on quality. Yeah the Subie interior was cheap but the interior on old saabs is nothing to be proud about.

This Saab/Subaru platform sharing is gonna be a good thing especially for Saab. Subaru will benefit from style/design ques. Saab needs AWD and a good production facility like SIA in Lafayette Indiana.

Look the 9-2 is a place holder just like the Rainier based 9-7. I think thses both will turn out pleasant for Saab. Neither of these niche players has big brand cache, but to dismiss Subaru enginnering and Saab (GM) improvements in quality is just laugable. The cache is improving, it's never gonna be at a BMW, Lexus or Benz level because they don't make a truly luxurious segment car. I doubt they will. But just as Infiniti cache has improved and Volvos has diminished Saab and Subaru can and will improve.