GM is going to kill saab

[saab900turboguy]

As far as im concerned GM is making the Saab to american. Im a marine so im very patriotic, but saab is one thing that should not be american. I buy saabs because of there long lasting durability that they have had. Now that there becoming more american im afraid that longevity is going to crash just like the saab line. IF they want to bring back a money maker, bring back the SPG and improve that only keep it sweedish !

[benji9k]

See, the problem is that Saab doesn't have the money to improve any Saab models or create new models. Thus the 9-2 and 9-7 to provide quick cash and some recognition to the brand. To me, it's only a temporary thing, crutches to help Saab get a little better. Despite some point of views, Saab isn't doing that well on it's own. Perhaps, after a few years, when Saab is on it's own feet, they'll be producing models with the level of Saabness turned up high enough to please us all. Nothing wrong with a little diversity. Every brand has it's red-headed stepchild models, and soon they will be forgotten into the history of a reborn brand... We just gotta wait a few more years for the 'real Saab' cars to come out. We know they have the concepts, just gotta wait a little longer.

[valbowski1980]

GM has little regard for Saab's traditions, it just wants to sell cars.

[MrSaab95]

Originally Posted by valbowski1980

GM has little regard for Saab's traditions, it just wants to sell cars.

haha - so true

[Buddhabman]

Originally Posted by valbowski1980

GM has little regard for Saab's traditions, it just wants to sell cars.

All the crying and whinning by old Saab traditionalists is just going backwards. If you love the brand and want the brand to succeed buy a new one. I love a Sonnett and a 900, but face it the new cars are better, whether you want to admit it or not. Despite GM platform sharing which is the future period, the cars are nice.

The 9-3 has had a few problems but overall it has been solid. A new stock 9-3 with it's traditional sedan styling is still one of the best looking sport sedans out there. A modded 9-3 Aero with 18's and lowered is incredible looking, way better than a V70 R, G35, TL, C320 AMG, S4.

The 9-5 is still solid but not spectacular. AWD will improve it's marketability by allowing for greeater HP.

What do you say about the 9-7. Ok, old platform with lots of problems. That platform is hampered more by production issues than by the design itself. They should have that ironed out by now, agreed. If Saab can get a good production line, tweak the suspension and interior to the levels they have proposed then they will have a nice vehicle. They were able to improve the Subaru 9-2, maybe they can do the same to the Trailblazer. I like the Pics I have seen this far.

Have some faith in the brand. GM needs Saab to be succesful, they can't afford to roll out another Euro brand like Vauxhall over here.

[Lodro]

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

The 9-5 is still solid but not spectacular. AWD will improve it's marketability by allowing for greeater HP.

When?

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

What do you say about the 9-7. Ok, old platform with lots of problems. That platform is hampered more by production issues than by the design itself.

Its the design that _is_ the the problem. Solid rear axle. Weighs over 5,000 lbs. High cg. Poor crash results. I could go on.. :wink:

[Lodro]

[dup]

[CleveSaab]

Saab was doing a fine job killing themselves before GM came along....

[CosmicSaab]

Originally Posted by CleveSaab

Saab was doing a fine job killing themselves before GM came along....

Yes they very much were. And now they are starting to come off of life support, and it is because of GM.

And the GMT360 platform is not old, in fact, it is very modern, in uses a live rear axel because that is generally what trucks use and they didn't have the time to develop an independent rear suspension, which, by the way, the platform is able to handle.

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

All the crying and whinning by old Saab traditionalists is just going backwards. If you love the brand and want the brand to succeed buy a new one.

Can't afford a new one, If I could I'd take my money elsewhere (BMW). As far as where my loyalties lie, my previous car was an Accord and after my subpar Saab experience my next car will be an Accord as well.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

Despite GM platform sharing which is the future period, the cars are nice.

Not as nice as what the competitors build.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

A modded 9-3 Aero with 18's and lowered is incredible looking, way better than a V70 R, G35, TL, C320 AMG, S4.

The 9-3SS isn't that impressive looking at all and tops only the G35, then again this is only my opinion.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

What do you say about the 9-7.

I say that SUVs suck and this one is no exception.

And as for Vauxhall, Europe can keep it.

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by CosmicSaab

Yes they very much were. And now they are starting to come off of life support, and it is because of GM.

And the GMT360 platform is not old, in fact, it is very modern, in uses a live rear axel because that is generally what trucks use and they didn't have the time to develop an independent rear suspension, which, by the way, the platform is able to handle.

If the only way a car company car rebound after not making any money since 1994 is by building replicas of other cars I'm starting to think that Saab just isn't meant to be.

[Buddhabman]

[/quote]

Its the design that _is_ the the problem. Solid rear axle. Weighs over 5,000 lbs. High cg. Poor crash results. I could go on.. :wink:[/quote]

Yeah I know. But I take it from the viewpoint of the Buick Rainier insteads of the GMC Envoy / Chevy Trailblazer. If they start from that point then this will be halfway decent. I beleive this is the model the 9-7 is based on. The Ranier with the V8 has been praised.

From Edmunds.com - "Buick and Oldsmobile have always been upscale brands, but with Cadillac moving further up the pricing ladder and Olds on its way out, there's more room for Buick to offer premium products to a discerning clientele. General Motors wants Buick to become synonymous with the kind of sophisticated luxury vehicles that currently wear the Lexus badge. In fact, Buick is creating what it calls "quiet tuning" in order to help the Rainier accomplish this goal. Extra sound-deadening material has been added under the hood and around the doors as part of the overall emphasis on a quiet ride. The styling is also a little more sophisticated as well -- both the Oldsmobile Bravada and Rainier have a sleek, carlike appearance, but with the Olds going away soon, the Rainier will have to carry the classy torch alone. Buick has also given the Rainier a more aerodynamic profile to keep wind buffeting to a minimum. The Rainier is the second all-new Buick in the past few years. And it certainly says something that both new entries from Buick are SUVs. Although the Rainier is based on GM's existing midsize SUV platform, it does differ in several ways. The Rainier is the only member of the midsize GM SUV family to get an optional V8 in the short-wheelbase, five-seat configuration. With the Envoy and TrailBlazer, you have to go to the longer and heavier seven-seat versions to upgrade from the 4.2-liter inline six. And while the Rainier shares its sibling's interior setup, it does offer upscale gauges that are unique to Buick. All-wheel drive is optional and the system seamlessly transfers power between all four wheels depending on traction conditions. The rear differential is fully locking and all this technology requires no input from the driver. Without the optional all-wheel drive, the Rainier is, like its siblings, a rear-wheel-drive vehicle. Thankfully the Rainier is more than just a rebadged Envoy. Buick has delivered a great-looking SUV that can offer all the off-road prowess of the TrailBlazer with the luxury of a premium sedan. Unless Cadillac comes out with its own version of the GM midsize SUV, which is unlikely, the Rainer with a V8 is the closest thing to a junior-size Escalade."

[Buddhabman]

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

A modded 9-3 Aero with 18's and lowered is incredible looking, way better than a V70 R, G35, TL, C320 AMG, S4.

The 9-3SS isn't that impressive looking at all and tops only the G35, then again this is only my opinion.

I was a tad too exhuberant in my last rant. I like the M3, S4 and C32 AMG. If I had that cash to spend then, I would have one. But for the price of an 9-3 Aero and a few mods under 39K total you have a safe car that can outrun a TL, G35, 330 w/ZHP and maybe an Accord. Well maybenot but sure looks better.

[Lodro]

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

From Edmunds.com - "Buick and Oldsmobile have always been upscale brands...the Rainer with a V8 is the closest thing to a junior-size Escalade."

Not that I'd want one of those.

Still, I promise to withhold _final_ judgement until I actually see and drive one.

[Lodro]

But then there is this...

"Frontal impacts resulted in a three-star rating for the driver and front passenger. The IIHS rated the TrailBlazer as "Marginal" (the second lowest score on a four-point scale) after conducting its frontal offset crash test."

I wonder, is Saab really going to sink so low as to sell a truck that gets Marginal safety ratings? How the hell are they going to spin this?!?

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

The 9-3SS isn't that impressive looking at all and tops only the G35, then again this is only my opinion.

I was a tad too exhuberant in my last rant. I like the M3, S4 and C32 AMG. If I had that cash to spend then, I would have one. But for the price of an 9-3 Aero and a few mods under 39K total you have a safe car that can outrun a TL, G35, 330 w/ZHP and maybe an Accord. Well maybenot but sure looks better.

Safety used to be Saab's bag but now most of the other makers have caught up. The ideal hotrod IMO is the new Legacy Turbo, far less than 39 grand and with some mods it will own an Aero.

[Lodro]

Originally Posted by valbowski1980

Safety used to be Saab's bag but now most of the other makers have caught up. The ideal hotrod IMO is the new Legacy Turbo, far less than 39 grand and with some mods it will own an Aero.

We drove one, and just weren't that impressed. It could get out of its own way, and was much better looking inside, but it is still a Subaru for better or worse. Something about it left me cold.

[CleveSaab]

Originally Posted by valbowski1980

If the only way a car company car rebound after not making any money since 1994

Try 90'. If they were making money in 93', they'd still be around.
Saab NEVER made tons of money. And they caved when GM came calling. They could have EASILY said "we reserve the right to deisgn our own cars....". But they didn't. Just rolled over for the cash.

[Lodro]

Originally Posted by CleveSaab

They could have EASILY said "we reserve the right to deisgn our own cars....". But they didn't. Just rolled over for the cash.

Aquisitions don't really work that way. If you're getting bought the only thing that matters (unless you are Ben & Jerry's) is the money that the current shareholders get.

[Saba]

I think GM would respect and foster an offshore subsidiary's independence and culture once they can demonstrate they can sustain it. Holden is a similar sized GM company to Saab, exporting about a quarter of its production. Holden is one of GM's most profitable manufacturers producing a range of its own designs and imported variants (mainly Opel and Vauxhall). Basically its get free reign to do as it wants, but still maintains its GM links. I think GM has a similar role in mind for Saab (at least as a corporate model).

BTW Holden's chief designer has just been appointed Executive Director of Design for all of GM's north American subsidaries.