If I wanted a chevy I'd buy a chevy....

[JFK-USAF]

My 03 SS may be my first and last SAAB if SAAB is not allowed to continue to design their OWN cars/suvs. Same reason I wouldn't buy a Cadillac -- it's just a Chevy with more buttons and leather and a higher price tag. My opinions are the same for the 9-2.

I'm not looking for an debate I'm just expressing a view.

I know I've posted this before but if we (Saab) had to merge with a company --- imagine iv VW bought Saab. A 9-7 based on the Cheyanne and a 9-2 based on the R-32 Golf. It just seems like a better reality then the one we face today.

jfk

[Lodro]

Originally Posted by JFK-USAF

My 03 SS may be my first and last SAAB if SAAB is not allowed to continue to design their OWN cars/suvs. Same reason I wouldn't buy a Cadillac -- it's just a Chevy with more buttons and leather and a higher price tag. My opinions are the same for the 9-2.

Except that isn't even true of Cadillac anymore -- both the CTS and SRX have platforms unique (for now) to caddy. And their powertrains (Northstar) have also been quite independent.

[CleveSaab]

Saab needs to prove they can make money before they will be given the green light to produce thier own cars. Bet on it.
That's how GM is treating GMC. GMC sales are going up up up. So GM decided to scrap Pontiacs' little sport wagon, and GMC is designing thier own from scratch and will be out in 2007.

[fabric]

Originally Posted by Lodro

Except that isn't even true of Cadillac anymore -- both the CTS and SRX have platforms unique (for now) to caddy. And their powertrains (Northstar) have also been quite independent.

Lodro is exactly right. And if your outlook is to not buy cars that have any type of platform sharing, you are going to quickly run out of options. Very few cars today have a unique chassis, and even fewer are totally unique in their own rights (shared engine, suspension compements, interior bits).

If you didn't know which vehicles the 9-3SS shares it's platform, you would not be able tell by looking. I can understand your point on the 9-2x and 9-7x, but let's not write Saab off until we see where they go from here. Both of those models only have about 2-3 years left in all their forms, so something new will have to be coming out. It will likely be platform shared, but will be unique in the way the 9-3 is to the Epsilon platform.


based on VW's quality issues, wanting Saab to be bought by VW sounds like out of the frying pan, into the fire. GM looks like it's actually taking a keen interest in Saab. Saab will have 6 models in the next few years. It took GM some time, but things look like they are moving in a positive direction.

[sethsev7n]

well, all it takes for me to write off a car is cheap parts, and a boring drive, which is exactly what i experienced in my 9-2x test drive yesterday. Not only did the factory alarm go off which is the most annoying noise EVER, but the doors feel cheap and very loose/loud when they shut, the whole interior feels cheap to me, and it even though it drives ok, it doesnt feel like anything special. In short it felt very detached from what i expected from saab. If that sort of quality and workmanship keeps up with the 9-7x, ill be very happy to write off saab and go to another brand that makes cars that i enjoy to sit in and drive. Until then ill love my car until it dies

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by sethsev7n

well, all it takes for me to write off a car is cheap parts, and a boring drive, which is exactly what i experienced in my 9-2x test drive yesterday. Not only did the factory alarm go off which is the most annoying noise EVER, but the doors feel cheap and very loose/loud when they shut, the whole interior feels cheap to me, and it even though it drives ok, it doesnt feel like anything special. In short it felt very detached from what i expected from saab. If that sort of quality and workmanship keeps up with the 9-7x, ill be very happy to write off saab and go to another brand that makes cars that i enjoy to sit in and drive. Until then ill love my car until it dies

ditto

[F911]

The subaru/saab connection makes some sense, given they are in many respects, similar niche brands (not to mention the wrx is a fine car before the swap). But a chevy suv? I think there is a limit to the sharing. GM still doesn't quite get the idea of allowing some parts sharing but with the brand defining/designing the car. I think Ford did a little better with Volvo and Jaguar. I only hope GM doesn't increase its share in Subaru, the last of a dying breed of quirky independents...

[valbowski1980]

The 9-2X doesn't make sence to me since it is not much more than a WRX wagon. Had Saab used the engine and tranny of the STi it would have been a different story. If Saab wanted an SUV this badly, why not something based on an Outback? Those sell like cup cakes and make more sence with gas prices where they are.

[sethsev7n]

Originally Posted by valbowski1980

If Saab wanted an SUV this badly, why not something based on an Outback?

I dont think SAAB ever wanted an SUV... or a WRX either

:wink:

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by sethsev7n

I dont think SAAB ever wanted an SUV... or a WRX either

:wink:

Hehe, right.

What I meant was that since Saab (now a tool of GM) didn't think that it's cars were good enough and another SUV was the answer to it's **** ty market share should have IMO gone with something Outback like.

[Stefano]

Isn't the upcoming 9-6 based on the Outback (or is it the Forester)? Or am I totally wrong....?

[finklejag]

Originally Posted by Stefano

Isn't the upcoming 9-6 based on the Outback (or is it the Forester)? Or am I totally wrong....?

I believe its based on a new crossover SUV platform. :-?

[jimbob]

Call me a mad pessamist, but seeing these new Saab models based on GM vehicles makes me appreciate the three OLD Saabs I've got all the more. Saab and off roaders just don't mix. Off roaders are (were) just not in Saabs philosophy.
That off roader model is probably based on somthing like a GM Vauxhall Frontera which was an total abomination and awful to drive.
The very reason I bought Saabs was because they were DIFFERENT and the build quality was high. I am absolutely determined to keep my existing cars on the road until I'm too old to drive!!!!!
Talking of Subaru Foresters, I've got a customers in my workshop at the moment which needs 2 new rear shock absorbers. They cost over £400 EACH from my local Subaru dealers and there is no alternative or pattern part available. They make Saab parts prices sound quite reasonable.

(sorry, rant over)

[Buddhabman]

My word, we must be in Napa Valley, all the whinning around here.

No one likes the 9-2X, They think it is cheap and flimsy. Nothing special to drive. Well I bet you haven't driven it fast. Do that and then see.
I shouldn't even waste my keystrokes. It's the same car the WRX is no worse, so what's the problem. It's an entry level premium car. If you think the A3 or 1 Series are gonna be so much better you are on vapors. I agree it is a tad pricey.

Now for the one who thinks Saab should have merged with VW. If I could have a dollar for every VW I see with blown tail light or head light. The muffled thunk sound of a car door closing does not the car make. Those cars freaking suck to drive fast. Period point blank. Plus after you do run them hard be prepared to be without them for a week. The R32 is the exception. You can take a VW I will take a Subaru any freaking day.

Look Saab needs AWD, they have to get it from somewhere. What do you suggest? VW, Toyota, Honda's new SH-AWD, Volvo Haldex? Yea Right! Oh alright, simple Subaru, that will work for now until we can find a system more complex. :-?

Now to the crying about the the pitiful 9-7 / Trailblazer/Envoy/Ranier. Look even Porsche has a damn SUV, what are you gonna do. Well Saab doesn't have Porsche money so no there will be no Cayanne rip off. Why GM didn't let them have the SRX? So we have the Ranier, I say Ranier because I suspect they will at least have the Ranier level of interior and sound proofing. The Buick has a tad better interior. Now to their credit they are concentrating on one model with a V8. They have also bolted on a independent suspenion subframe. This might work if they make a good suspension tune, engine tune and get good build quality from the Ohio plant.

The future is brighter than it was before GM. I feel like an apologist for Saab/GM, kinda Like Dub-ya for Iraq.

The 9-6 Saaburu should be nice, based on a upgraded Legacy frame. Hell if Saab/GM were smart they would drop the ecotec 2.3 4cyl or ecotec V6 or whatever and just drop the turbo Subaru boxer engines in. I said in another post the Subaru Airplane boxer engine is more in line with Aero theme. They have some awesome turbo motors waiting for vehicles. There is also this cool independent Revtec engine being shopped by GM for China.

Saab needs a larger more luxury car though. Maybe they an get the sigma STS platform for 2007/8.

This forum is getting pathetic with all the doom-sayers.

End of Rant.

[jimbob]

Ah, so the 9-2X IS cheap and flimsey, but it's saving grace is that it's fast? At least you're honest Buddhabman
All the brands owned by Volkswagen are even more similar to each other than most. A Skoda Octavia for example is nothing more than a rebadged Passat. Yes, they are better than the old Skodas which is good. Saab on the other hand IMO have gone in the other direction and they have become worse cars for it. This is what I resent, consumer choice these days is only skin deep. We are being deceived by the manufacturers who claim they are selling you a particular car only for you to find out later that your pride and joy which you paid a fortune for is based on a run-of-the-mill rep mobile. I think I have a right to be a moaning old git, maybe even a doom sayer, but I think that's being a bit harsh.
I suppose this is one of the downsides of globalisation. It's coming full circle where in the communist countries, everyone used to drive around in Trabants and Zills and we in the west laughed because we had a choice of countless different products. Well now the manufacturers are laughing at us because they have standardised all the products to make them cheaper to produce. Then they'll stick what ever badge you want on your new car.
God I like a good moan.

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

My word, we must be in Napa Valley, all the whinning around here.

No one likes the 9-2X, They think it is cheap and flimsy. Nothing special to drive. Well I bet you haven't driven it fast. Do that and then see.
I shouldn't even waste my keystrokes. It's the same car the WRX is no worse, so what's the problem. It's an entry level premium car. If you think the A3 or 1 Series are gonna be so much better you are on vapors. I agree it is a tad pricey.

That's the point isn't it? It's the same car! Calling it a Saab would be the same as sticking feathers up your dog's *** and saying you made a chicken.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

Now for the one who thinks Saab should have merged with VW. If I could have a dollar for every VW I see with blown tail light or head light. The muffled thunk sound of a car door closing does not the car make. Those cars freaking suck to drive fast. Period point blank. Plus after you do run them hard be prepared to be without them for a week. The R32 is the exception. You can take a VW I will take a Subaru any freaking day.

Here I agree with you, VW wouldn't have been any better of a choice. Their quality does leave a lot to be desired for the prices they ask.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

Look Saab needs AWD, they have to get it from somewhere. What do you suggest? VW, Toyota, Honda's new SH-AWD, Volvo Haldex? Yea Right! Oh alright, simple Subaru, that will work for now until we can find a system more complex. :-?

Sure they do. Why not take Subaru's kick *** AWD and make a Saab?

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

Now to the crying about the the pitiful 9-7 / Trailblazer/Envoy/Ranier. Look even Porsche has a damn SUV, what are you gonna do.

Point and laugh

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

Well Saab doesn't have Porsche money so no there will be no Cayanne rip off. Why GM didn't let them have the SRX?

Because Saab isn't first priority, Cad is.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

So we have the Ranier, I say Ranier because I suspect they will at least have the Ranier level of interior and sound proofing. The Buick has a tad better interior. Now to their credit they are concentrating on one model with a V8. They have also bolted on a independent suspenion subframe. This might work if they make a good suspension tune, engine tune and get good build quality from the Ohio plant.

Yay , so Saab will build Buicks now. As I said before, Saab is too late in the SUV game and building yet another TB/Envoy incarnation is dumb, they could have taken the Legacy platform and done something with it now instead of waiting for the next time. SUVs are for the sheep anyhow.

Originally Posted by Buddhabman

The 9-6 Saaburu should be nice, based on a upgraded Legacy frame. Hell if Saab/GM were smart they would drop the ecotec 2.3 4cyl or ecotec V6 or whatever and just drop the turbo Subaru boxer engines in. I said in another post the Subaru Airplane boxer engine is more in line with Aero theme. They have some awesome turbo motors waiting for vehicles. There is also this cool independent Revtec engine being shopped by GM for China.

Saab needs a larger more luxury car though. Maybe they an get the sigma STS platform for 2007/8.

This forum is getting pathetic with all the doom-sayers.

End of Rant.

Can't argue with you here. It would be cool to see what you say above work.

When a car company tosses around catch phrases like "State of independence" and starts putting body kits and their own logos on Subarus maybe it is doomed. What sane person would take a car maker like that seriously?

[STI4theSlowGuy]

Originally Posted by sethsev7n

well, all it takes for me to write off a car is cheap parts, and a boring drive, which is exactly what i experienced in my 9-2x test drive yesterday. Not only did the factory alarm go off which is the most annoying noise EVER, but the doors feel cheap and very loose/loud when they shut, the whole interior feels cheap to me, and it even though it drives ok, it doesnt feel like anything special. In short it felt very detached from what i expected from saab. If that sort of quality and workmanship keeps up with the 9-7x, ill be very happy to write off saab and go to another brand that makes cars that i enjoy to sit in and drive. Until then ill love my car until it dies

normally i would let another 9-2x rant go by the waysides... but you hit a sore spot for me in this one.

The doors on the 9-2x are nice. And i say that as both an owner and a car lover.

My last car was no "**** subaru" I had a top of the line maxima and my parents have always owned top of the line luxury automobiles.

I will talk no trash about saab, just that if you picked the doors out as the problem you are grasping for something to be mad about. Theres something like 30 pounds of sound deadening in the 9-2x.

Anyways... you are way off. You picked on one of my favorite parts of the car.

E

[Lodro]

Originally Posted by STI4theSlowGuy

The doors on the 9-2x are nice. And i say that as both an owner and a car lover.

The doors suck and I say that as a WRX owner. Sill-less is not the way to go for a nice stiff door. THere are other things to like about the 9-2x but the doord ain't one of them.

Originally Posted by Lodro

The doors suck and I say that as a WRX owner. Sill-less is not the way to go for a nice stiff door. THere are other things to like about the 9-2x but the doord ain't one of them.

I drove a 9-2x yesterday and everytime I closed the doors, I had to turn around and double check the door was closed because it didn't give a solid sound or feel. It gets annoying after a while, but to me it's more of an oddity than a nuisance.

[STI4theSlowGuy]

Then I must have lucked out and gotten some free upgrade super saab crazy lucky door thing. My doors are nice. They sound nice. They hold the sound out. They close nice.