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Old 7th June 2004
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Default Where will be built Saab in the future???

Take a look at that....

""""The future of Saab's factory in Sweden has been thrown into doubt by General Motors Vice Chairman Robert Lutz.

"Who knows where Saabs will be built in future? There is nothing that says Saabs have to be made in Sweden," Lutz said.

Saab's plant at Trollhattan, Sweden, is operating at just 59 percent of capacity, according to consultant PricewaterhouseCoopers. The plant assembles the Saab 9-3 and 9-5.

General Motors has struggled to make Saab profitable since it bought 50 percent of the Swedish automaker in 1990 and assumed full ownership in 2000. Saab's losses in 2002 were 450 million euros, or about $551.5 million at current exchange rates. Last year's figures are not available.

Lutz said GM Europe will restructure radically its production capacities to improve utilization of its plants, a move that is likely to affect Saab.

"We like Saab, we like its design, we like its customers," Lutz said. "But Saab's problem is that its product line has been too narrow. That is why we have to do things differently."

Lutz added that Saab needed new models but was too small to develop them alone while it had total annual sales of just 130,000 and huge annual losses.

The 9-2X sport hatchback, which goes on sale in the United States this month, will be produced by Subaru in Japan. It is the first Saab to be built outside Sweden.

Saab's new 9-7X SUV, based on the Chevrolet TrailBlazer, goes on sale in the United States next February. It will be built at GM's plant in Moraine, Ohio.

"Saab has been trying for 20 years to reach sales of 150,000 units a year -- the critical volume it needs to be profitable," said John Lawson, from London-based analyst SmithBarney.

He said adding badged products from Subaru and Chevrolet will give Saab a good chance of reaching the target.

Lutz declined to comment on speculation that GM will produce Opel Vectras or Cadillac-badged Saabs at Trollhattan.

"There will be no badge engineering to produce a 9-3 with a Cadillac nameplate," Lutz said.

"We have said that we would like to expand the presence of Cadillac. If we do something, it will be an entirely new vehicle which may share certain components.""""

Autonews.com

As many other factories, They are working less than 70% of its capacity. Saab is using the 59% of it's capacity, thanks to??? GM cutted many project that could be made in trollhattan, Saab the last years made the most important invesment in its history to increase the capacity of its factory, and for what?? and GM take part of this investment, they say is the Saab fault, but I think it is a GM fault, during the 90s they posses a part of Saab and they weren't able to redirect the situation. Thanks to the success of the 9-5, Saab was able to avoid the bankrupt, because GM made a very bad management of Opel and Saab(you remember Super Lopez??). Now they saying that trollhattan is using only 59% of its resources, when the brand it has the capability to offer a lot of good engineering, innovation... and GM wasn't able to use it correctly. Mr Lutz, who is making the mistakes?? Saab or GM?? i think it is a bad management, aprove many million of dollars of invesment to increase the capacity of the factory and then say the factory is working only at 59%, because you are reducing costs, cut one of the product lines and don't aprove any project to launch new products. this is not manegement, this is a ****ing ****!!!!

I hope the new technics of decontenting that you are using to reduce costs will not afect the quality and the safety of Saab products...

the dollar-euro situation, could make less atractive to invest in sweden, also the high costs of swedish labour costs, but why did you make that investment? those factories are able to produce with high value and the engineering are quite better that in other factories. Take a loke at the USA factories, the bmw and mercedes models that are maded in USA factories are the worst relaible.

greetings
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  #2  
Old 7th June 2004
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Default Re: Where will be built Saab in the future???

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Originally Posted by edusaab
Take a loke at the USA factories, the bmw and mercedes models that are maded in USA factories are the worst relaible.

greetings
You'll need to back this up.

based on information on Consumer reports, BMWs and Mercedes' built in the US are no worse than the European made.

Japanese manufactures have not had any major problems building models in the US either.
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I am sorry to generalize, but in some terms this is true, in the last years are becoming better. But for example BMW and MB, that made the X5 and Mclass, those models are the worst reliable models in its brands. The mazda6 made in USA, have more failures and now Mazda make some recalls of the version made in USA. In the USA factories, there is a critical point, China is becoming more and more efficient and USA factories in 80's and 90's loose many of this efficiency that now are recovering. Western European factories are losing it has a lack of competitivness because the higher labour cost, respect eastern countries and Asia countries. USA factories have the dolar situation as a feature to atract investment, but now a days the USA factories need more work to do, to recover the quality of work of the japanese and some europear factories.

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Old 7th June 2004
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For these examples, we have Honda and Toyota plants manufacturing millions of Accords and Camrys over here that are the most reliable cars on the roads. And we have plenty of examples of VW's made in Germany that are plagued with quality issues.

It sounds like the argument is once again why do the Japanes make such great cars, because it doesn't seem to matter where they make them. BMW and Mercedes have plenty of problems with cars built in Germany as well. I don't think it's the workers or the factory locations that are the ultimate determiner of quality.
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no not only the factory, where build the car is the reason, the basic reason is the work culture of the company, the process of production and other....

For example, a good example, is a GM plant, that was closed in the 80's and then buyed by Toyota if i remember well, the factory becomes one of the best in the country, relaible and profitable. I wouldn't like to generalize(I am sorry, it was my fault), that all the factories in USA are bad far away from the real, if you compare it to another countries, as you say with the adecuate culture it could become very good factories, but now are less comptetitive in many terms, China factories for example in 4 years arrived at the level of USA factories in terms of efficiency and reliability.Is not the same, the work culture and the productivity of a Swedish factory than a Spanish factory, for example or a Spanish factory than a USA factory, it is quite difficult to change the work culture, for example when a japanese brand enter in the USA to produce in it, for example Lexus to produce the RX300, the reason is to become more "american product", made in America, to introduce the product easily in the American market, and also to avoid the problems of the Yen-dollar echange rate and no for it's productivity or quality, they will introduce it's know how and his culture to avoid the problems of bad eficiency that could find and to increase the productivity. Here in Spain, many people in few years will loose his jobs, all the factory and investment are going to eastern europe, and with many good reasons, Spain hadnot invested to increase it's productivity and flexibility of the work labour, it is quite different in the USA, but the northern countries of europe has very good productivity and a incredible work culture to become more and more competitive, and increase the value of the work they do, and it is very difficult that USA factories arrive in many terms of productivity and efficiency to the japanese or some others countries.

As you say, the factories you said, are from japanse brands, not the big three are in the list, isn't it? this is the problem I would like to express(and badly I generalize). The GM plants aren't the most reliable, and as you say, the german or from other countries aren't, for this reason many of those plants are reducing the work to pass it at another factories of eeastern countries. Why don't use the trollhattan plant, that was one of the most reliable plants and efficient plants?, they invest many money to increase the capacity of the plant and they can introduce for example the c-flex system, will be introduced in USA plants to become more competitive and increase the % of use.
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In this article you can find very goof ideas of what happen and the things I would like to say.

http://www.time.com/time/globalbusin...1002-1,00.html

As I say, is not the same a USA factory of a japanse brand that recive a japanese know how, than the USA factories of the GM or big trhee plants. the diference of quality are in the work culture, method of production and others, this make the difference, and I wouldn't like imagine that a Saab is made in USA without a change of the nowadays methods of GM USA plants, it seems that GM is recovering the terrain lost, but it needs more effort to reduce the gap.

greetings
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Old 7th June 2004
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Yes, the big 3 aren't doing a very good job. I think we're saying the same thing, though. The Japanese are making a good product, whether it be made in US or Japan (or elsewhere at some point), because they have a more efficient process.

The argument for the different cultures affecting the workmanship doesn't seem to make any sense though. US workers are making products of the same quality for Honda, for example. The better product is a result of the corporate culture, not the geographic culture. As well as a superior production process - considering that car production is almost entirely automated, quality is really dictated at the production design phase.
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The workplace culture it is a important factor. In the USA, for example you have a more openminded mentality, it is more easy to introduce changes and to become flexible, but it seems that not enough, japanase make a revolution with the just in time, and another process, and in some terms where easy to introduce in USA, but this process it is quite difficult because involves the suppliers and you must introduce and integrate in the process. For example here in Spain, it is quite difficult to introduce this culture of the just in time and some japanese or other...because here in spain there is a more calm culture, it is dificult to make changes and this is a lack of the competitiveness of the spanish plants.

USA plants, have the ability to become flexible and more efficient if you ofer new processes, for example the japanese and german demonstrate it, but also you must push it hard, BMW and MB has a lot of reability problems with the models make in USA plants, they introduced new methods, more rigorous quality controls and more rigorous methods to become more german and make it as a german, and that was in some terms difficult for the USA plants, they must change some features to become more american, new methods to adapt to the USA situation to make more synergies between the two cultures.

The problem of the GM plants and GM, is they didn't "listen" the other brands and what they can offer. For example, Saab in its history demonstrates a lot of innovative ideas and rigorous methods that makes it cars unique and more advanced in many features compared to big brands with more financial powerful, now GM seems begin to recon this and is looking from sinergies between diferent engineering methods from diferent countries, making global teams. But they only speak about Saab, and his unused resources, take a look at Opel, they use less than 56% of the Russelheim plant, and Lutz didn't say anything.

greetings
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Old 8th June 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edusaab
The workplace culture it is a important factor. In the USA, for example you have a more openminded mentality, it is more easy to introduce changes and to become flexible, but it seems that not enough, japanase make a revolution with the just in time, and another process, and in some terms where easy to introduce in USA, but this process it is quite difficult because involves the suppliers and you must introduce and integrate in the process. For example here in Spain, it is quite difficult to introduce this culture of the just in time and some japanese or other...because here in spain there is a more calm culture, it is dificult to make changes and this is a lack of the competitiveness of the spanish plants.
This is an excellent explanation, thanks. I hadn't taken that into account, but this makes perfect sense.

Quote:
USA plants, have the ability to become flexible and more efficient if you ofer new processes, for example the japanese and german demonstrate it, but also you must push it hard, BMW and MB has a lot of reability problems with the models make in USA plants, they introduced new methods, more rigorous quality controls and more rigorous methods to become more german and make it as a german, and that was in some terms difficult for the USA plants, they must change some features to become more american, new methods to adapt to the USA situation to make more synergies between the two cultures.
I had read that after the DaimlerChryslter *cough* merger, UAW wanted to unionize the ML plant an Alabama. The workers did not want to, mainly because I think they had better pay, but they were also really happy with the working conditions and environment.


Quote:

The problem of the GM plants and GM, is they didn't "listen" the other brands and what they can offer.
This does sound like the problem. I know that Saab worked very hard to streamline their assembly process and integrate to the two lines so that 9-3's and 9-5's could be built at the same time.
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Old 8th June 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabric
For these examples, we have Honda and Toyota plants manufacturing millions of Accords and Camrys over here that are the most reliable cars on the roads. And we have plenty of examples of VW's made in Germany that are plagued with quality issues.

It sounds like the argument is once again why do the Japanes make such great cars, because it doesn't seem to matter where they make them. BMW and Mercedes have plenty of problems with cars built in Germany as well. I don't think it's the workers or the factory locations that are the ultimate determiner of quality.


the only VWs made in germany that are sold in the US are the passats.

the mexico made cars are the ones with the issues. jetta, beetle. golfs and gtis are made in brazil

it's real simple, whereever the cars are made. saab has to bring their process to the plant.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squishmann


the only VWs made in germany that are sold in the US are the passats.

the mexico made cars are the ones with the issues. jetta, beetle. golfs and gtis are made in brazil

it's real simple, whereever the cars are made. saab has to bring their process to the plant.
I thought the 2.0 litres were made in Mexico and Brazil, the 1.8T's in germany - it wasn't model specific.

My golf had enough issues, thank you.
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Old 8th June 2004
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I don't see anywhere where Saabs plant in Sweden will be closed. And they are GM was planning on selling a rebodied and reinterior'd 9-3 as a Cadillac. Sort of like how Chrysler does the Crossfire. I don't think many people would call it a rebadge even though it does share an interior.
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Old 9th June 2004
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I thought the rebadged Saab as Cadillac was dead?

They should rebadge the convertible, so Caddy has a convertible to compete with the small Euro convertibles.. As it's one of Saab's most successful models, they must be doing something right, although maybe it's just because it looks so nice.
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Old 9th June 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabric
I thought the rebadged Saab as Cadillac was dead?

They should rebadge the convertible, so Caddy has a convertible to compete with the small Euro convertibles.. As it's one of Saab's most successful models, they must be doing something right, although maybe it's just because it looks so nice.
Not the last I heard. This article says they will not be rebadging a Saab, but it did say they were considering a Caddy that shared "certian mechanical parts" aka, the platform, suspension, engine, transmission, ...
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