98 saab 900S needs new motor. Did we miss symptoms?

[robyn]

Our car needed to have the ignition tried a couple timee before it would start. It also was making a loud driving/muffler type noise which the garage said was cause it was just old.

( 140K miles)

Lo and behold I am told the valve seals had a problem and the motor got oil in it, causing the motor to die.

I now have a quote of about 2200 for engine replacement.

A. Should I replace the motor on a 140K mile Saab?
B. Were those symptoms indicative of this coming valve motor problem and it was overlooked?
Thanks very much for your help!

[bassist5]

An Saab engine shouldn't fail at 140k.. Maybe a part of it (clutch, etc), but not the whole thing.

Also, a mod should move this to the NG900 forum, since it's a '98. I'm sure you'll get lots of answers here, but you'll get better ones in the NG900, since it's specific to that car.

[robyn]

Do you think I should have a dealer look at it? The same garage that said that there was nothing to do about the noise said oil got into the motor ruining it. Do you think that was appropriate advice to ignore symptoms? Do you think 2200 is a good price for replacement? Is it worth it to replace the motor with a car with that mileage? Do you think a dealer might say only part of the engine has a problem??/?

That is it for questions!! THanks for any replies!!!

One more.if I do decide to say sayonara to the non running car, what is the best means to sell it... for something///?

[900t]

Now wait a second. The valve seals are bad. Right? But nothing else is bad or at least is causing you trouble (ie worn tires or something)

Why replace the motor? All that would be needed is a valve job, which is an involved repair, but not a $2200 one. I agree Saabs should not need this type of fix at such low milage, however it is probably due to misuse/abuse either on the part of the mechanics / ???...

Oil is all over the engine, it is not in the combustion chamber (where yours is going). However it won't destroy anything on the motor. You may want to clean / replace the catalyseur, beacuse the oil likely is playing havoc with it, but your motor is fine.

If you want to sell it I could easily relieve you of it... (always wanted a NG 900)

[jetman]

Mosy mechanics nowadays are what I call parts exchangers. They take one out and put a new one in. But actually FIX something? Not a chance. Bad oil seals is not a reason to replace the engine. But 2200 sounds cheap for even a recon job. So either somewhere the information is getting miscombobulated or your garage is a bunch of pikers.

[robyn]

Basically the car was driving noisily as if it needed a muffler. Then all of a sudden there was clattering sound and smoke and the engine petered out. Garage told me that it needs an engine and it would cost 2200 for that ( sounded cheap to me) and it was atributable to bad valve seals and oil getting into the engine.

I will re clarify tomorrow but this indeed does sound pretty weird.

How much would you see that this currently non running saab is worth? ( black, beige interior)

[92-Vert]

If the Doctor told you that you needed to have you hands amputated wouldn't you get a second opinion? $2200.00 is a great price for a new engine. But I dought that is what your getting. Honestly I don't think you need a total engine job. Is it worth repairing? How is the rest of the car? Body good? Interior good? Drive train good? If that is all you need of course it is. There are Saabs here with over 300k on them of course they are not NGs.

You should really move this question over to the NG900 Forum. You would get a much better response to your questions.

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=3

Oh yeah I'll give you $2200.00 for your NG.

"Saabs Ride On" 8)

[92-Vert]

Oh something else. Have you been taking your Saab to the local garage and not a Saab tech. Very bad move. Try a real Saab tech there are some listed on this forum in your area. Good Luck, Richard

"Saabs Ride On' 8)

[900t]

Yeah I would really even take it to a Saab dealer just for an opinion, it may cost $$$ but they won't screw you into something big.

[fabric]

Originally Posted by 900t

Yeah I would really even take it to a Saab dealer just for an opinion, it may cost $$$ but they won't screw you into something big.

They won't screw you on the opinion or the actual work? I usually steer clear of the dealer, although some of them can be very good.

robyn, there's a list of Saab mechanics here, hopefully someone here will vouch for some of the Mass ones:

http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/faq/service/

[Samba_GS-R]

Here's an obvious question that hasn;t been asked....What the hell does a leaking valve have to do with oil getting into the combustion chamber? 2nd, since when does that lead to the demise of an engine? 3rd, how does he know what the hell is going on with the engine if the head hasn't been off it--which then leads to why doesn't he just give the head a valve job? This entire story stinks of BS! I am so sick of these indy mechanics ripping people off. A guy I work with was just charged over $1500 for trouble shooting of a car that would start(1998 malibu). On the bill there was over $600 of labour for "diagnostics", $700 for an ECU, and several hundred more for other misc parts. Turns out that the mechanic simply took the car to the local GM dealer, where they scanned it an replaced the ECU because of a the OBD2 indcating ECU died. Cost for ECU $400- labour $120. The genius/ripp off artist was dumb enough to leave the invoice from the dealer in the car. So he charged this guy $1500 for $550 of work, that he didn't even do! Like everyone has said...GET A 2nd opinion, preferably from a dealer, and don't make a mention that a previous mech said it needed a new engine.

[mike saunders]

Robyn,

Definitely take the car to a competent, qualified independent Saab mechanic and not your local wrenchhead. There are several in the Boston area that will give you a good estimate of the work involved...A dealer is the option of last resort for any car out of warranty, although there are some fine ones in the area...

I'm also puzzled about the "oil" getting into the cylinders as the reason for the demise of the engine. That shouldn't have anything to do with the valves....Pull the plugs and check to see if they were fouled (oil will turn the spark plugs a greasy black)...

Were you burning oil (dense white smoke) before the car died? If you open the coolant reservoir, is there a film of oil at the top? Does the dipstick show a milky residue?

Did the guy ask any of those questions, or look at those?

[goalkeeper21]

What part of MA are you from? I think everyone else has you covered with help, I am along with them. I've had a horror story of them screwing me. I actually work at a local shop and that really puts a bad name to other mechanics. Good luck with whatever you do.
Tony

[Nikkidanjo]

Bad valve seals could result in oil consumption. That's not too bad so long as you keep the oil topped off and don't mind replacing the catalytic converter every 100,000 miles.

From what you have posted, the story doesn't make sense. My Miata ran just fine even with some head issues.

That said, the sounds you described don't look good. I would take is to a second shop. I would not take it to anyone who says "it's old". That may be true but that doesn't address the issue. My Miata is old, that doesn't mean I can't figure out why it doesn't run like new. Take it to another shop/trusted SAAB shop/ (shudder) dealer. Hell, take it to those Car Talk guys in Cambridge. Also, if you are looking for a new shop, check out the Mechanic's X-Files on the Car Talk web site. (the Car Talk section of Cars.com)

If it does need a new engine, befriend some one who is mechanically competent


Goog Luck!

[ragtopcav]

The description of the failure sounds like sudden loss of the timing chain, usual cause is tensioner failure. If this guess is correct a cylinder head over haul and new timing gear will be required, any competent shop should be able to handle that.

[92-Vert]

That is so funny and dangerous for someone to say to a Saab owner.

"It also was making a loud driving/muffler type noise which the garage said was cause "it was just old. "

If that was said to say, an owner of 1982 Saab 900 8v Turbo. They might get their head handed to them. I know that I would at the very least get back into my "OLD" 1992 900s 16v convertible and run over his foot on the way out of the place.

Most classic owners' think that 1998 Saabs are "NEW". Why I feel the my Saab is "NEW" when speaking to other Saab owners that have Saabs that are 10 to 15 years older than mine. Someone like that has no right or no privalage to work on any Saab. Remmber it not just a car it a "Saab".

"Saabs Ride On' 8)

[Willy Wonka]

Originally Posted by ragtopcav

The description of the failure sounds like sudden loss of the timing chain, usual cause is tensioner failure. If this guess is correct a cylinder head over haul and new timing gear will be required, any competent shop should be able to handle that.

So in your opinion the shop is having delusions of enrichments. In Mass I know of several good honest independents in the SE part of the state.

[ragtopcav]

Originally Posted by Willy Wonka

So in your opinion the shop is having delusions of enrichments.

Sadly this happens all too often