THE END

[NineThreer]

This is the end -- I can see it clearly now. GM has detonated the explosives they placed at the end of Saab's long and winding tunnel. Saab showrooms will now be filled with shmucks and their degenerate gene-shareres seeking yet another monstrosity to ride around in and burn more gas each day than an Iraqi village uses in a week. With the gas prices we have today, and the promise that they will steadily rise to $3.00 per gallon come mid-summer, who on earth is going to buy a $45,000 SUV with an enormous V8? What we need is $5.50 a gallon like in the European market - then we'll see what Detroit starts doing about fuel efficiency. The 9-7 is not a Saab, anyway you cut it. Not by design, not by performance, not by principle, not by concept, not by safety, not by anything. This is 1000 times worse than Porsche releasing the Cayenne, for instance.

[valbowski1980]

I'll drink to that. I often wonder if Saab would have been better off dead instead of what it is now.

[CosmicSaab]

You people, you know what, GM is trying to help Saab without going deeper into the red then they already are. You wonder if Saab would have been better off dead, well I can assure you that if the 9-2x and 9-7x don't go over well you will get your chance to find out. I don't know why you are so agitated about these vehicles, I am not happy about them, but I understand the reasoning. GM has been exceptioally patient with Saab and they are now looking in the face of death. If these two go over well, the Saab may one day be able to produce its own designs again, otherwise, don't worry, GM will kill them off because it won't be worth it anymore.

[Nairda]

GM wouldn't shut down and fire over 8000 people at Saab because
they aren't making enough profit for their share holders.
GM will simply do what they did in 1993 after 8 yrs of
owning Lotus. Lotus was dumped and is currently owned by
Proton. It would be stupid and a waste of money to let Saab
factories rot and its name to remain under GM ownership when
they could sell it to an interested buyer and make some money.

[sethsev7n]

we're upset because we really loved Saab.. before GM started destroying it...

[finklejag]

Originally Posted by sethsev7n

we're upset because we really loved Saab.. before GM started destroying it...

[XAAMOTTOMAAX]

You can still buy a 9-5 with the same 2.3L that has been used for over 10 years. You can still get a sporty convertible. With the 9-2X, you can still get a small economic vehicle with a large rear cargo space. When has Saab EVER offered more choices than there are now? You can still get the Saaby things you love in the other vehicles Saab offers. Stop WHINING about a friggin SUV offered for sale in the US regardless of what good or bad points you can say about it. It is called diversification and my parents tought me it was a good thing when choosing friends, my financial advisor tells me I need to invest with diversification, and GM is only using this same principle to keep some of the AMERICAN driver's they lose every year because there is no SUV in the line up. You people don't only have problems with your views on driving and vehicles, you have problems with your attitudes and I would guess it does not only apply to this forum. I would guess it applies to your entire lives.

[saabfan]

It's the whiney 'loyalists' who haven't enabled Saab to make a profit in a decade... I'm glad Saab/GM is finally realizing that appeasing them doesn't work!

The 9-7 might not be the ultimate SUV, but it's a sign that Saab is on a new road and one which will hopefully lead to profitability and much better product in the near future.

Good riddance to the 'loyalists.' May they enjoy their 'real' Saabs from here to eternity while the rest of us remain cognizant of reality.

SaabFan - part of the Saab family for 14 years.

[valbowski1980]

What about the saab parts that we buy to keep our 'real' saabs running. Car makers cash in big on parts and service, but nice try saabfan.

[saabfan]

Yeah, as shown by a decade in the red, obviously all that parts buying is keeping Saab sitting pretty!

[CosmicSaab]

Originally Posted by Nairda

GM wouldn't shut down and fire over 8000 people at Saab because
they aren't making enough profit for their share holders.
GM will simply do what they did in 1993 after 8 yrs of
owning Lotus. Lotus was dumped and is currently owned by
Proton. It would be stupid and a waste of money to let Saab
factories rot and its name to remain under GM ownership when
they could sell it to an interested buyer and make some money.

Uhh, here is the thing; they are not making ANY profit. There is no enough about it. Right now GM would be exceedingly happy if Saab were to just break even. Moreover, Saab is very different from Lotus, which is still an exclusive pure performance brand. Saab is like Volvo and BMW, and Mercedes, and.... Except for one thing, Saab does not have the status of those other brands (except maybe Volvo).

[CosmicSaab]

Originally Posted by saabfan

It's the whiney 'loyalists' who haven't enabled Saab to make a profit in a decade... I'm glad Saab/GM is finally realizing that appeasing them doesn't work!
The 9-7 might not be the ultimate SUV, but it's a sign that Saab is on a new road and one which will hopefully lead to profitability and much better product in the near future.

Good riddance to the 'loyalists.' May they enjoy their 'real' Saabs from here to eternity while the rest of us remain cognizant of reality.

SaabFan - part of the Saab family for 14 years.

Amen to that.

[CosmicSaab]

Originally Posted by saabfan

Yeah, as shown by a decade in the red, obviously all that parts buying is keeping Saab sitting pretty!

'nuff said.

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by saabfan

Yeah, as shown by a decade in the red, obviously all that parts buying is keeping Saab sitting pretty!

There are many reasons for why a company can be in the red saabfan, blaming it strictly on the loyalists is a bit absurd don't you think?

[saabfan]

Originally Posted by valbowski1980

There are many reasons for why a company can be in the red saabfan, blaming it strictly on the loyalists is a bit absurd don't you think?

Please don't think that I'm blaming Saab's poor performance on the loyalists. All I am saying is that for years of appealing to only a very small customer base Saab has not made money. The formula is NOT WORKING. Now that Saab is trying to change the formula all the loyalists can do is whine. People, wake up! It was high time for a change. As much as some would like to have Saab continue making product for a very niche market, it wasn't working. So understand that please and stop whining.

You wouldn't run your company into the ground so please understand that Saab doesn't want to do that either.

[valbowski1980]

Originally Posted by saabfan

Please don't think that I'm blaming Saab's poor performance on the loyalists. All I am saying is that for years of appealing to only a very small customer base Saab has not made money. The formula is NOT WORKING. Now that Saab is trying to change the formula all the loyalists can do is whine. People, wake up! It was high time for a change. As much as some would like to have Saab continue making product for a very niche market, it wasn't working. So understand that please and stop whining.

You wouldn't run your company into the ground so please understand that Saab doesn't want to do that either.

Good point saabfan, I'm not sure why Saab is acting a decade later. If you slice your arm and are losing blood do you apply a bandage now or 10 hours later? Look at the competition within the segments Saab sells cars, if you fall and don't get up ASAP you are dead i.e. Alfa Romeo and such in the US market. It could have been poor marketing, inefficient distribution networks... In my opinion Saab should have changed things up 10 years ago as opposed to rushing to do it now with stop-gap models. It looks to me that just like GM's Saturn, Saab is living on borroed time.

To be frank, I'm not much of a loyalist. My 9000CS fell into my lap as a great deal and had I acted a day late I would have been driving an Accord right now. I was actually going to sell it but it grew on me .

[XAAMOTTOMAAX]

As much as we may love our Saabs, only offering front wheel drive 4 cyl. vehicles during the 90's is what put the brand in the position it is in today. Sure it worked before the 90's but everything changed last decade. "People who test drive a Saab usually buy a Saab." The problem is they can not get enough people to test drive because in this day, the 4 cyl is reserved for econoboxes or for Saab traditionalists and no one else is going to consider a 40k luxury sedan with such an engine, even if it is turbo charged. Quirks are for quirky people. My Aero has tons of space, great features and great styling. It is also high revving, rough idling, lacking a decent manual gearbox and chock full of common annoying failures. There are PLENTY of problems to fix but unfortunately not enough money to address them all. If they can not start generating more income, they are not going to make it much longer. The success of the 9-3ss is the only reason they came out with these new models. GM believes Saab can become mainstream. They are going to have to lose some traditionalist customers in the process.

[chico_85]

Originally Posted by saabfan

It's the whiney 'loyalists' who haven't enabled Saab to make a profit in a decade... I'm glad Saab/GM is finally realizing that appeasing them doesn't work!

SaabFan - part of the Saab family for 14 years.

It's so true. It's all the same for every new model Saab has released, from the 900 to the 9000, the 9-3, the 9-5 and the 9-3SS. Every time the loyalists would come out and whine about GM ruining Saab, blah blah blah. The fact is Saab has learned the hard way that they cannot survive serving only to their hard-core loyalists, who ironically, won't continue buying Saab --they keep their *true* Saabs forever and snub their noses at every new Saab model that comes out.

[Nairda]

SaabFan:

Yeah, as shown by a decade in red..

Get your facts straight, they're in the red because of the
new 9-3. Before the 9-3 Saab broke even or made major profit's,
especially mid-decade plus they didn't hemorrhage after the
9-5 was released, they did last year because of the 9-3.
GM expects Saab to recoup the cost's of a factory upgrade
and car development at the snap of a finger, ludicrous.
SaabFan:

It's the whiney 'loyalists'

That have kept buying the car's, even if they at first had
a minor grudge but the 9-7X is blatant badge engineering at
its worst. Saab should diversify, it's good business, but not these
half@ssed atempts at the last minute.
All you whiner's who complain about Saab using 4 cyl turbo's,
front drive and having various quirks don't really get it.
Imagine if BMW didn't cater to their real fans and made
a front-drive car or rejected the in-line 6 layout because
they needed to be more mainstream, give me a break.
I don't see people complaining that Volvo's have weird 5 cyl
turbo engine's or that it's mainly front-drive. There is no
other car maker like Saab but Volvo comes close to making
a similar type of car.
This is GM think: They consider spending $3 billion on Cadillac
without getting a return an 'investment' while spending $600m
creating a new Saab and manufacturing plant a loss.

[saabfan]

Originally Posted by Nairda

SaabFan:

Get your facts straight, they're in the red because of the
new 9-3. Before the 9-3 Saab broke even or made major profit's,
especially mid-decade plus they didn't hemorrhage after the
9-5 was released, they did last year because of the 9-3.
GM expects Saab to recoup the cost's of a factory upgrade
and car development at the snap of a finger, ludicrous.

Err... Saab hasn't really made a profit for a decade, and the last time I checked the 9-3 Sport Sedan came out in 2002. So, blaming Saab's financial woes for the past 10 years on the 9-3 SS which wasn't even around for the vast majority of that time makes no sense whatsoever. And please stop trying to turn this around on GM. Give me a break! How many times to people have to tell the loyalists that without GM there isn't Saab?

Originally Posted by Nairda

SaabFan:

That have kept buying the car's, even if they at first had
a minor grudge but the 9-7X is blatant badge engineering at
its worst. Saab should diversify, it's good business, but not these
half@ssed atempts at the last minute.

I completely agree with you, the 9-7X is blatant badge engineering and I don't think it will be Saab's finest product. But I really don't think there were any other options. Fortunately you don't have to buy it.

Originally Posted by Nairda

All you whiner's who complain about Saab using 4 cyl turbo's,
front drive and having various quirks don't really get it.
Imagine if BMW didn't cater to their real fans and made
a front-drive car or rejected the in-line 6 layout because
they needed to be more mainstream, give me a break.

Hate to break it to you but BMW's 'real fans' are a vastly greater number of people than Saab's. Hence BMW has been profitable, and, in fact, the motor company has been producing world-class cars for years now.

Also, RWD cars and inline 6s aren't 'quirky' like Saabs inline 4s, torque steer, notchy manuals, hatchbacks, etc., etc.