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Old 6th March 2013
Bob Klein Bob Klein is offline
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Default Replace Crank Position Sensor (CPS) on 2001 9-3

Surprisingly, this issue does not seem to be on the 9-3 forums (if it is, I apologize). I had a pair of problems on my 2001 9-3 - only 65K miles on it, so kind of annoying - The first was a bad Neutral Safety Sensor (NSS) which I solved with the standard bypass (see threads 1792756 and 1737446). The second turned out to be a bad Crank Position Sensor (CPS). For this latter problem the car would vigorously turn over (while cold) without a hint of ignition. Fuel pressure was 44 psi, so that wasn't the problem. A Snap-On scanner indicated 0 rpm signal to the ECM, which basically means a bad CPS (at least I hoped!). Prices all over the map for these things, from $18 to $400. I bought 2 of the cheap ones from two different companies, figuring one ought to work. Waited a week, which is the price you pay for getting them cheap - fortunately I have other vehicles to drive. The two CPS units looked pretty much identical, so that at least was reassuring....

As noted, I was unable to find anything on this topic on the 9-3 forums, but there's some info on the 9-5 forum and elsewhere if you do a google search. The short story is this thing is a bear to get to! The CPS is on the front of the engine, down low on the mid-right-hand side as you're facing the engine. If you have a strong light you can barely see the little silver heat shield and the Torx head screw that holds in in place. It is the only thing in the area with a black covered 3-wire harness leading to it. That harness, which is only about a quarter inch in diameter, runs to the right as you're facing the engine and hooks up to a connector on the back side, positioned in a metal holder about halfway between the engine and the firewall - if you remove the plastic shroud around the oil fill tube, it's a little easier to see.

Steps a friend and I did. Removed the plastic battery shroud cover. I disconnected the battery but I don't think you have to for this job if you don't want to. Removed the silver tube from what I think is the turbo of the left leading up to a vacuum sensor on the right (10 mm hex head bolt on the left, fat rubber tube with 2 clamps on the sensor). Removed the heat shroud (1/2 inch or 13 mm socket works). I thought about removing the oxygen sensor, but decided I would probably only break it, so I left it in place - the job would have been a little easier if I had removed it). Worked a can of Blaster down close and gave the area a couple of squirts, and left for 2-3 hours. The LAST thing you need to do is strip this bolt out, so patience is a virtue.

As are small hands. There is BARELY enough room to get a hand between the engine and the exhaust manifold down-pipe. You definitely need a TILT HEAD socket wrench, a T30 Torx head socket, and about a 1 inch extender. Unless you're really good or really lucky it will take about 20 minutes of continuous swearing to finally get the Torx bit in. You can bend the heat shield a little if you have to, but it doesn't really bend in the direction you need it to - so I didn't. We were pretty careful working the bolt out. Once the bolt was out the heat shield came off easily. The CPS unit could be worked out by hand - it's a tight fit, but it can be twisted and pulled til it gives up. Be sure the O-ring came out with it - if it didn't, you'll have to fish it out with a hook. You can't leave it in place, or the new one won't work (or so the on-line forums state).

Getting the new one in is equally tough. You can get it most of the way, but you'll need to force it to seat it properly, and you can't really pry against anything. We used a piece of wood, and it seated with an obvious "thunk". There was no way on this God's Green Earth that I was ever going to use that Torx head bolt again (not Saab's greatest idea) - I got a much longer 6mm bolt (with a standard 10 mm hex head) and added nuts until the threaded length matched the Torx head bolt. We rotated the CPS until we had the holes matched up so the new bolt would thread correctly, then reassembled it with the heat shield. The old CPS unit harness runs through a metal clamp under the head, hard to get to, so I just left it there and ran the new harness alongside. Hooked up the new one to the connector, replaced the oil shroud, the heat shield, the silver turbo (?) tube, the battery, and the battery shroud, and fired it up. Success!

This job took us about 2 hours start to finish, not counting the Blaster soaking time. I think it's easier to do in darkness, so your lights really illuminate what you're working on. But I'll cut the old CPS harness out in daylight. If all this seems to be way too much of a pain, the local shop quoted $600 for the job, and the local Saab dealer $900.

By the way, this job is basically impossible to do from under the car, so don't bother trying. Good luck and I hope this helps.

-END-
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Old 6th March 2013
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This is what i did


http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=239721
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Old 6th March 2013
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Most people test the resistance of the CPS before deciding to replace it. It just takes a minute to disconnect the connector and use the a multimeter set on ohms 540 +/-55 Ohms for a turbo engine... Ron
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Old 6th March 2013
Bob Klein Bob Klein is offline
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To swill424242 - Fortunately the Torx head bolt on my 9-3 was in reasonably good shape - no rust, not covered in grunge - so I didn't need much more than luck to get it out. If it had been in bad shape at the least I'd clean it with a wire brush, and do the Blaster thing a couple of times. And if it wouldn't give it up I'd probably just sigh and take off the down pipe so I could get at it a little more properly. [And I gotta say, if the mechanic described in your thread replaced a CPS in 25 minutes, he's a far, far, far better man than me!]

To 97 Saab SE Turbo - I agree that would have been the way to go, but when the scanner showed no rpm to the ECM we felt pretty confident in the diagnosis. I recognize that's easy to say in hindsight. If I really had had to spend $400 for a new CPS, I probably would have done some more testing, but at $35 for two of them I was willing to roll the dice. BTW, I had a '97 Talladega before I got this one. All things considered, I probably should have kept it. The guy I sold it to (a real Saab Fanatic) was ecstatic to get it, and was going to bring it up to "better than new". I've owned 900s since 1984, but while I like them a lot I'm not willing to sell my soul for them!
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Old 6th March 2013
BlueTaelon BlueTaelon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '97 Saab SE Turbo View Post
Most people test the resistance of the CPS before deciding to replace it. It just takes a minute to disconnect the connector and use the a multimeter set on ohms 540 +/-55 Ohms for a turbo engine... Ron

How do you do that? I've never used a multimeter.
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Old 6th March 2013
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Remove the connector for the CPS - near the throttle body. There are three wires, orange on the left and black in the middle and right. Set the multimeter on Ohms, connect the two test leads to the orange and middle black leads. Read the resistance. If it displays as an "8" on it's side, that's infinite Ohms or open. If it reads 0, that's a short or 0 resistance. What you are looking for is 540 +/-55 Oms.

Note that there are two CPS - one for the turbo engine and one for the non-turbo engine. For more information, download a copy of the WIS - it's got all the test procedures in it... Ron
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Old 6th March 2013
BlueTaelon BlueTaelon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '97 Saab SE Turbo View Post
Remove the connector for the CPS - near the throttle body. There are three wires, orange on the left and black in the middle and right. Set the multimeter on Ohms, connect the two test leads to the orange and middle black leads. Read the resistance. If it displays as an "8" on it's side, that's infinite Ohms or open. If it reads 0, that's a short or 0 resistance. What you are looking for is 540 +/-55 Oms.

Note that there are two CPS - one for the turbo engine and one for the non-turbo engine. For more information, download a copy of the WIS - it's got all the test procedures in it... Ron

umm, dumb question but what do I set the dial on? I do have a a copy of the WIS
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Old 6th March 2013
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Originally Posted by BlueTaelon View Post
umm, dumb question but what do I set the dial on? I do have a a copy of the WIS
Set the multimeter on Ohms... Ron
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Old 6th March 2013
BlueTaelon BlueTaelon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '97 Saab SE Turbo View Post
Remove the connector for the CPS - near the throttle body. There are three wires, orange on the left and black in the middle and right. Set the multimeter on Ohms, connect the two test leads to the orange and middle black leads. Read the resistance. If it displays as an "8" on it's side, that's infinite Ohms or open. If it reads 0, that's a short or 0 resistance. What you are looking for is 540 +/-55 Oms.

Note that there are two CPS - one for the turbo engine and one for the non-turbo engine. For more information, download a copy of the WIS - it's got all the test procedures in it... Ron

It reads 538 but when I do the 2nd step from the WIS the 2 pins on the left and right (not the middle) it just says 1 and the manual doesn't say what that means. Its a commercial electric MAS830B from Home Depot.
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Old 6th March 2013
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The pin on the right is shielding, you should get an infinite reading (i.e. the 1 you are seeing) if things are correct, since the shielding connects to a common ground they want to make sure the signal wire isn't shorting out to that shielded ground.
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Old 6th March 2013
BobSaabit BobSaabit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Klein View Post
... And if it wouldn't give it up I'd probably just sigh and take off the down pipe so I could get at it a little more properly.
Umm... spoken like a guy who never took off the downpipe on a 9-3

The bottom bolt on the turbo is a RPITA. Many minutes of wrenching with a stubby 13mm less than a 1/4 turn at a time to get it off. If you're really lucky, the stud comes loose and you get to play with that for a while since there's not enough clearance to take out the stud completely with the downpipe in place.

Any notes you'd add on the CPS removal itself on a 9-3 vs an NG900?
This is starting to sound to me like a maintenance task we should all do every 75K miles when we have some time to spare (and to get a stainless hex head on there in place of the torx).
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Old 7th March 2013
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I am thinking my CPS is bad, i didn't do the Ohm test though, but it was said that you wont see your rpm change on attempted starts with a bad one.
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Old 7th March 2013
BobSaabit BobSaabit is offline
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Correct - the CPS give teh ECU the signal with engine revolutions. No CPS, no tach.

Last edited by BobSaabit; 7th March 2013 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 7th March 2013
Pontius DIO Pontius DIO is offline
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I just did mine. Got this one: BECK/ARNLEY Part # 1800227 from Rock Auto. Ordered Monday, arrived Wednesday. $54. They had a cheaper one for like $35, but why risk it?

Also, only thing in the way on 99' 9-3 SE was heat shield and the small heat shield on the actual sensor. Used a 1/4" ratchet with 3" extension coupled to a T-30 torx bit. Ran it right under the factory DP with fan in place. If you have 3" DP, omit the extension and loosen from underneath, or unbolt the DP at the turbo. If you have a 3" down pipe, it should be easy to to remove the 3 bolts holding it to the turbo.

My sensor was *working*, passed the ohms test, but was severely frayed where the wire harness entered the boot of the sensor and the epoxy isolating the 2 wires from the ground shield Jake mentioned was brittle and falling out. On rare occasions, the tach needle would drop (it'd go completely out, then back) even though the idle wasn't. So for what it's worth, if it's really old or original, it's cheap insurance to visually check and replace if you can see the shielding wire at the boot. I dug into the epoxy a little further and the signal and ground wires have exposed crimping that's usually concealed with epoxy. Once the epoxy goes brittle, moisture can get in there and short out the connection. If ignored long enough, the wires can/will corrode, making it hard to diagnose as it'll probably still read OK with an ohm meter.
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Old 11th April 2013
Bob Klein Bob Klein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSaabit View Post
Umm... spoken like a guy who never took off the downpipe on a 9-3

The bottom bolt on the turbo is a RPITA. Many minutes of wrenching with a stubby 13mm less than a 1/4 turn at a time to get it off. If you're really lucky, the stud comes loose and you get to play with that for a while since there's not enough clearance to take out the stud completely with the downpipe in place.

Any notes you'd add on the CPS removal itself on a 9-3 vs an NG900?
This is starting to sound to me like a maintenance task we should all do every 75K miles when we have some time to spare (and to get a stainless hex head on there in place of the torx).

Reply - Well you're correct, I have not yet had that particular pleasure, at least not on a Saab - and I hope I never do.... On the NG900, sorry, I don't have any experience and have to pass - I hope you've taken care of it by now. On replacing the CPS as a matter of routine maintenance, it's certainly a big enough PITA (at least for me!) that I can't recommend it as a just-in-case precaution - I would also note that this is the first time I've had to replace one, and I've driven Saab 900s for 28 years now, reaching 250K-plus with two of them. You will note in my original post that I did replace the Torx-head bolt with a 10 mm hex-head 6 mm bolt, not stainless but high quality, and much longer for easy access if I ever have to do the job again. All for now....
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Old 11th April 2013
Pontius DIO Pontius DIO is offline
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I'm still surprised people have such an issue with this. Everything on mine was original and took about 15 minutes total in/out. If the head of the bolt were to snap, pull the sensor and vice grips should grab it unless it breaks at the block.


Klein, I'm guessing you still have all the plastic cover under the front of the car which would be in the way from underneath.
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  #17  
Old 22nd May 2013
MDRose64 MDRose64 is offline
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Default 2001 9-3 wont start

I had the car towed and did not hear the fuel pump working and replace the pump and filter and now have fuel at the rail and it won't start. It will start if I spray starting fluid in throttle body which makes no sense ?? I replaced the DIC with a known good one. I am out of ideas.... Is it my Crank Position Sensor??

Thanks

Mike
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Old 22nd May 2013
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Originally Posted by MDRose64 View Post
I had the car towed and did not hear the fuel pump working and replace the pump and filter and now have fuel at the rail and it won't start. It will start if I spray starting fluid in throttle body which makes no sense ?? I replaced the DIC with a known good one. I am out of ideas.... Is it my Crank Position Sensor??

Thanks

Mike
Hey Mike, welcome aboard If you don't get many replies, try starting a new thread, dedicated thread.

Anytime something actually fails, reset the ECM (pull neg- battery cable for a minute or so- some say longer but I've found it resets quickly) and try priming the pump several times. Turn the key to ON, but don't start. Listen for the pump to run, after 15 sec, shut off and repeat. Do that several times then try starting. Check the fuse too.

Over the years I've either had fuel pump replacements or ran out of gas, then had a tough to start car. Most notable being an 86' Cougar that took forever to get started. After successfully priming several times, it should fire.
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Old 22nd May 2013
MDRose64 MDRose64 is offline
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Default No start

Thanks for replying. I looked for a link to start a new thread but could not find it? Also I have primed repeatedly with no luck. I will trying resetting as you said and see if that works...There is fuel in the rail, but it does not seem like it the injectors are spraying. I pulled the plugs which were new and they are just a little wet so I changed them, but they did not smell like gas, just ether.

Thanks

Mike
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Old 22nd May 2013
Pontius DIO Pontius DIO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDRose64 View Post
Thanks for replying. I looked for a link to start a new thread but could not find it? Also I have primed repeatedly with no luck. I will trying resetting as you said and see if that works...There is fuel in the rail, but it does not seem like it the injectors are spraying. I pulled the plugs which were new and they are just a little wet so I changed them, but they did not smell like gas, just ether.

Thanks

Mike
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=15

To the left above the threads it says "New Thread".

Hmm, I dunno. Someone else will have to pipe up as I've yet to run into this on my own car. If you have an ohm meter, you can check the CPS ohm resistance across 2 of the 3 wires.
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