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  #1  
Old 4th March 2012
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Default FMIC on '91 c900 (in progress)

I decided to try and put an FMIC on my '91 t16 'vert, because it just doesn't make sense to me to have the IC inside the engine compartment. So I found one for sale in here from a fellow forum member, with shipping cost me $110. The boxes are labeled CXRacing.com, and I rec'd two boxes, one with the hose kit, and the other with the FMIC itself (27x6x2.5).



After I got this kit, I popped the hood, and was trying to get an idea of how difficult this was going to be, and if I could reuse any of the piping from the stock setup. I looked down towards the front, to see what would have to be removed in order to more easily fit the 2.5" piping, and saw that it looks like the headlight wiper motors will have to go. I crawled under the front, and it looks like I'll have to cut away the metal section that has the tow holes, in order to route the pipes to the FMIC itself.

I decided to start this project this afternoon, since it was raining and I had nothing else to do. So i started by removing the stock IC, which was relatively easy. The "cold" pipe off the stock IC looks like the same diameter as the FMIC kit piping and connectors, so I decided to keep that piece, and just rotated it downwards, so one of the 45-degree FMIC pipes will connect to it. There seems to be more room on this side to route the FMIC pipes, but I think I'll still remove both headlight wiper motors to be sure.



Now figuring out something to do with the "hot" pipe was interesting. I already knew it was smaller (2") than the "cold" pipe, so I had thoughts of getting some kind of straight reducer and connecting one of the FMIC pipes to the stock "hot" pipe; putting the reducer at the "hot" pipe exit, and running 2.5" pipe all the way from there to the FMIC; having a new "hot" pipe made, using the stock one as a template, where the new one would be about 2" longer, have a 90-degree bend at the end, angled about 135 degrees from vertical (pointing down towards the headlight) with a 2.5" flare at the end, so it could connect to the FMIC piping.

So with those thoughts dancing around in my brain, I ran some errands, and picked up a body saw from Harbor Freight, and what I thought would be the solution to getting the stock 2" "hot" pipe connected to the 2.5" FMIC piping. These two parts are from Home Depot. The white elbow is a 2" 90-degree street elbow, and the black reducer coupling is clearly labeled. Notice how the ends are different on the white elbow. The idea I had was to put the smaller end of the rubber coupler over the end of the stock "hot" pipe, then put the non-flared end of the white elbow into the larger end of the rubber coupler, pointing towards the front, then slip one of the new 2.5" couplers over the flared end of the white elbow, so I could connect a section of straight FMIC piping.




Well, this may have been a good idea, but it failed the application test. I repositioned the "hot" pipe so it was pointing to the passenger side, instead of the driver side like stock. I put the rubber coupler on the end, then the white elbow, and this 3-piece setup ended up being too long, there was no way I was going to be able to connect one of the FMIC pipes to this setup. I took all the pieces off, spread them out on my work bench, then started trying to figure out a way to make this work, with the parts I had on hand. I was just about out of ideas, and decided the easiest way to get this to work was to take the stock "hot" pipe to a muffler shop, and have them make a new one, as I described above.

Then I realized I forgot one important piece, and that was the coupler that connected the stock "hot" pipe to the stock IC. I pulled that stock coupler off, and realized it was 2" on one end, and 2.5" on the other. So I got another idea, and that was to attach the smaller end to the "hot" pipe inlet off the engine, put the white elbow on the bigger end, put one of the new couplers on the end of the white elbow, then use one of the 90-degree FMIC pipes and run it towards the front. I had to reposition the coil wire so it ran under the radiator hose instead of over it, but other than that, I think this will work.



I test fitted one of the 90-degree FMIC pipes to the end, and I'm definitely going to have to remove the headlight wiper motor on the passenger side. It's more cramped for space on that side, and there's no way I'm going to get it to fit.

So my question for the forum: is there an easy way to remove the headlight wiper motors, without having to take off the headlights and side marker lights? I'm going to try and work on this a little bit at a time after work this week, take pictures of any progress I make, and post them along with a little narrative, like I did here. I'm hoping to have this done by next weekend, so we'll see...
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Last edited by socal1200r; 4th March 2012 at 06:35 PM.
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  #2  
Old 4th March 2012
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At a minium start by removing the grille and front bumper for this project. How do you plan to mount/secure the FMIC? You must first start by locating and mounting the FMIC in/to the car and then you build the pipe work for it. Do you know anyone who can weld the IC pipes for you after you have made the appropriate cuts? The less couplers you use the better. Use a 90* 2"-2.5" silicone reducer for the turbo. PVC pipe is a bad idea. You can keep the RH wiper motor but it will require removing it and re-clocking the motor.
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Old 4th March 2012
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Originally Posted by dmgb5 View Post
At a minium start by removing the grille and front bumper for this project. You can keep the RH wiper motor but it will require removing it and re-clocking the motor.
I agree you need to remove the grille and bumper. I kept my headlight wipers with my FMIC:



I had no trouble getting the tubing around the right wiper motor:



The left however required rotating the wiper moter 90 degrees and a right wiper motor bracket:



It is a worthwhile modification, best of luck!
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Old 4th March 2012
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The 90-degree reducer like you mentioned would have to be the same dimensions of the pieces I'm using in the picture, in order to clear the distributor cap and wires. The blue 90-degree couplers pictured in the kit are too short.

As for mounting the FMIC, I was actually thinking of using something like this:

http://www.cfrperformance.com/PhotoD...ode=HZ-406-KIT

The FMIC has three threaded bosses welded to the top and bottom, along with two slotted straps, 4 bolts, and 4 washers, so this could also be hard-mounted to something. But using something like these zip-tie plastic rods should be much easier, provided I can access the back of the radiator, if mounting it directly in front of the radiator ends up being the best location.

Like you said, I think I'll have to remove some parts in order to have better access to the front, then see where this thing is going to go, then test fit routing the pipes. I would really like to minimze what I have to take off in order to do this, because I remember what a PITA it was just to replace the driver's side headlight assembly. Shoot, just saw these other pics of the FMIC install, and he's got his headlights out...damn...

Measured the stock IC and the one I'm hoping to replace it with. Not only will the new one be OUT of the engine compartment, it also has almost two and a half times the volume of the stock IC. That combo gotta's be good for the engine and turbo system?!
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Last edited by socal1200r; 4th March 2012 at 08:13 PM.
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  #5  
Old 4th March 2012
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Saab Junkie - Did you have to cut the metal around those tow holes off? I don't see how there's enough space to route 2.5" pipes to the FMIC without cutting them off?
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  #6  
Old 5th March 2012
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If you mount the intercooler REALLY low, you might get away with leaving the tow hooks on; but then you run the risk of bumping it on the ground.

If you haven't done already, you should find a place for the intercooler, get it mounted, and work from there. Then you will see what needs to be moved, cut or otherwise.
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Old 5th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal1200r View Post
As for mounting the FMIC, I was actually thinking of using something like this:

http://www.cfrperformance.com/PhotoD...ode=HZ-406-KIT

....But using something like these zip-tie plastic rods should be much easier, provided I can access the back of the radiator, if mounting it directly in front of the radiator ends up being the best location.

Zip tie rods are a bad idea. You will need a much stronger mounting solution than plastic zip ties.

Those 90* couplers do not look like reducers.

You need to order something like this or similar...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-90-...ht_1771wt_1113

Last edited by dmgb5; 5th March 2012 at 02:46 AM.
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  #8  
Old 5th March 2012
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Originally Posted by dmgb5 View Post
Zip tie rods are a bad idea. You will need a much stronger mounting solution than plastic zip ties.

Those 90* couplers do not look like reducers.

You need to order something like this or similar... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-90-degree-Elbow-Reducer-51-64mm-2-2-5-inch-Red-/110503547200?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &vxp=mtr&hash=item19ba865140#ht_1771wt_1113
You should share some pixs of what we did for your car? In my option if you had a shop do it for you it would have been in the hundreds of dollars range, but it will still give ideas on how to properly install one.
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  #9  
Old 5th March 2012
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Originally Posted by socal1200r View Post
Saab Junkie - Did you have to cut the metal around those tow holes off? I don't see how there's enough space to route 2.5" pipes to the FMIC without cutting them off?
Yes, I did have to do a fair bit of cutting, but not the tow hooks, but the bumper pads see here:



and here (you can see the left intact tow hook in the background):


There has been debate about cutting the bumper pads and crashworthiness. Only you can decide what is right for you.
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Old 5th March 2012
JasenMorrow JasenMorrow is offline
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I just did a FMIC in mine i used a stock one outta the '95 9000 i had before along with all the stock piping from it and the piping from my 900. Hadda cut the tow hooks off though. Air hammer with a chisel tip made it just like cutting butter
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  #11  
Old 5th March 2012
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Here's tonight's progress:

"Before" pic of the passenger side headlight wiper motor still in place:


"After" pic with it removed, have LOTS of room in there now to route the 2.5" pipe. And yes, I put the two nuts back on those posts that the wiper motor came off of:


Removed the driving lights and lower plastic grill thingy under the front bumper:


At this point, I test fitted the FMIC, and since I didn't remove the headlights, I had to go up from the bottom of the bumper. My initial impressions are I'll definitely have to remove the tow hooks, and the FMIC will be mounted at the bottom of the radiator. There is a row of bolts in a metal piece under the radiator, and this is probably how I'll hard-mount the FMIC. I have some aluminum strap, so I'll just make some brackets, drill some holes on both ends, and mount the FMIC. Because it'll be low, most likely I'll have to trim (read cut off) some of the grids on the plastic thing that goes under the bumper, but that'll be easy to do.

I went ahead and test fitted some of the new piping, to get an idea of which pieces I can use. Here is the stock "cold" pipe rotated downwards, with a section of 135-degree pipe. The end of this piece of pipe will have to be cut a few inches at the FMIC end, and I'll probably use one of the blue elbow connectors and a piece of straight pipe to connect it to the FMIC:


On the "hot" side, I used one of the 90-degree sections of pipe, and it runs just below the headlight. I might be able to use the other 90-degree piece and connect it to the FMIC, I haven't gotten that far yet. Question about the t-clamps - will it be okay that the plug wires are actually touching the clamp, or should I try and put some kind of barrier between the wires and the clamp, like put some rubber hose around the wires where they touch?


So far I've been lucky in not having to remove the headlights or bumper. I think once I cut the tow hook areas off, and get the FMIC hard-mounted, connecting the last pieces of pipe will be fairly easy.

Stay tuned!
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Old 5th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal1200r View Post
Question about the t-clamps - will it be okay that the plug wires are actually touching the clamp, or should I try and put some kind of barrier between the wires and the clamp, like put some rubber hose around the wires where they touch?

So far I've been lucky in not having to remove the headlights or bumper. I think once I cut the tow hook areas off, and get the FMIC hard-mounted, connecting the last pieces of pipe will be fairly easy.

Stay tuned!
Looking good!

The t-bolt clamps should be fine near the plug wires, so long as there aren't any sharp edges to eat into the insulation.

Removing the bumper is really easy, and it will make mounting the intercooler a breeze
there are just two bolts that have an allen head, pointing straight up through the bumper. Once you remove the screws for the lower trim, it will jump right off
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Old 6th March 2012
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Saab Junkie - that looks like a huge FMIC you're running! I sketched some measurements on a piece of paper, starting with the dimensions of mine at 27"x6"x2.5". I think the ideal FMIC would measure around 18"x10"x2.5". This will be much more square versus rectangular like mine, and should be able to position it higher up against the radiator. Speaking of which, does your car run any hotter at all, since your FMIC covers up most of your radiator?

I did a quick search on the web, and wasn't able to find anything close to 18"x10"x2.5". The source for mine, CXRacing.com, doesn't carry anything smaller than what I have.

Oh well, just some food for thought. I'm committed at this point to make mine work, and I think cutting off those tow hook areas and cutting some piping will get everything connected. Once everything is connected, I'll start the car and check for leaks, fix accordingly, then trim that plastic thing that goes under the bumper and declare victory!
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Old 6th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal1200r View Post
Saab Junkie - that looks like a huge FMIC you're running! I sketched some measurements on a piece of paper, starting with the dimensions of mine at 27"x6"x2.5". I think the ideal FMIC would measure around 18"x10"x2.5". This will be much more square versus rectangular like mine, and should be able to position it higher up against the radiator. Speaking of which, does your car run any hotter at all, since your FMIC covers up most of your radiator?

I did a quick search on the web, and wasn't able to find anything close to 18"x10"x2.5". The source for mine, CXRacing.com, doesn't carry anything smaller than what I have.
I have a Yonaka type 6 (18x9x2.5)in my car, and it works very, very well. I make 232 WHP, and could make more but I had to turn down the boost due to a slipping clutch (9000 clutch is in the shed waiting to be installed). The Yonaka is a tight fit, but worth it. I could only pull ~200 WHP with the stock IC, even with a IC fan (same mods) before heat soak would cause the APC to kick in.

I have no trouble with cooling the car, even on the hottest days with A/C on.
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Old 6th March 2012
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Didn't make as much progress tonight (Tue) as I wanted, due mainly to equipment failure. Guess it's true what they say about some Harbor Freight tools! I'll have to buy a "real" sawzall (reciprocating saw) in order to finish cutting more metal, so I can mount the FMIC. I did end up removing the front bumper, so the whole front end is pretty much open now, and shouldn't have any issues using a sawzall, versus the small body saw I was using. Still have the headlights on, and I'm pretty sure I can finish this without having to remove them. Stopped by the hardware store and bought more 8mmx1.25 bolts to mount the FMIC, along with stacks of washers, should I need them (i.e. the bolts bottom out on the bosses that are welded on the top and bottom of the FMIC, and the next size shorter bolts are too short, so the washers can act as spacers if I need them).

Tow hook holes are gone, but this still isn't enough to mount the FMIC where I want. That edge under the radiator is where I plan on anchoring one end of the brackets, with the other ends on the bottom of the FMIC itself:





Question for you folks in this picture: see where these silver lines (assuming they're transmission fluid?) connect to the black fittings, at about the 5 o'clock position? Then the black lines coming out are flat like a coin? Are they supposed to be like that? Looks odd to me...

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Old 6th March 2012
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Bahaha harbor freight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socal1200r View Post
Didn't make as much progress tonight (Tue) as I wanted, due mainly to equipment failure. Guess it's true what they say about some Harbor Freight tools! I'll have to buy a "real" sawzall (reciprocating saw) in order to finish cutting more metal, so I can mount the FMIC.

Question for you folks in this picture: see where these silver lines (assuming they're transmission fluid?) connect to the black fittings, at about the 5 o'clock position? Then the black lines coming out are flat like a coin? Are they supposed to be like that? Looks odd to me...

Those lines are AC lines, and yes, they should be flat like that. That is the "low" pressure side of the AC system.
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Old 6th March 2012
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wbrook_ford - yeah, the $30 I spent on that body saw I could've just as easily donated to charity, lol! Thanks for the explanation on those lines, I just thought it looked really odd with those pancake lines. There's a Home Depot close to Langley Air Force Base, which is where I work, so I might go there during my lunch break tomorrow, and see what kind of sawzall's they have. I'm anxious to get this project finished, but don't want to rush it. I'd rather do it right, then right away, knowhutimean?!
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Old 7th March 2012
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I do not recommend cutting the bumper stops, as they can definitely compromise safety. Even by just cutting tow hooks you can get something large in, just mount it slightly lower.



You may get better luck by clocking the turbo downwards to minimize piping and the amount of room you need. As you can see in my setup, the headlight motors are untouched, and the pipes just slip right underneath. And this is on a flat-nose, which has less front space for an FMIC all around. In this setup, I had to remove my AC condenser.

Be sure to find something to seal up the cut metal or it can rust but good on you. At the very least, paint it up with a brush. And don't use zip ties, find a way to mount it permanently. The rad support had existing holes that I needed to drill out some to accommodate the M8 bolts I used to hang the FMIC. The bottom is supported by two steel bars attached to the frame, with M8 bolts holding it from underneath. This thing does NOT move.

I have also never had problems with engine heat, and I believe mine is a 18x17x3" IC, which is a monster...my piping is 2.5", so in my case, minimizing pipe volume is essential. While I haven't yet had any complaints about turbo lag, I'm sure reducing the size of my system would make me appreciate the reduction in lag that much more as well. However, my setup is basically a set-and-forget; I've been moving through turbos trying to find something ideal but cost effective, and I keep moving up the rungs. I will most likely eventually move to a big fast-spooling turbo, like the GT2860RS, so this system should be able to accommodate something like that easily.

li Arc
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Old 7th March 2012
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li Arc - I don't plan on cutting off any of the bumper stops. Whatever my bumper was attached to will remain intact, with the exception of removing the tow hook holes. The issue I have with my FMIC is the width. At 27" wide, the "necks" on both sides are right where the tow hook holes used to be, and being set up for 2.5" piping, there has to be enough space down there to mount the couplers and piping. If I had a more "square" FMIC like yours, this would've been significantly easier to do. Good to hear that even with a more upright FMIC like you're running, it doesn't cause any overheating issues, so mine should be even less of a concern in that area.

I went to Home Depot at lunch and bought a Ryobi reciprocating saw, so I'll take another try at getting this thing mounted tonight. I plan on mounting the bottom like yours, using some 1" wide flat aluminum stock. I figure four cuts on some pipe and I'll have it all connected. Once that's done, I'll start the car and check for leaks. If that goes well, I'll put the bumper back on, then trim the black plastic under bumper thing and get that mounted back up, then I should be done.

I'm not going to hold my breath, but at least with the new saw, I should be able to make more progress tonight.
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Old 7th March 2012
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I got SOOOOOO close tonite, more on that in a bit...

Got the FMIC hard-mounted, using three 1" aluminum brackets along the bottom. I used the inner bolts as opposed to the outer bolts (the brackets are secured by three bolts in a row), because I figured the piping at the ends will provide some support:




Then I got the piping all hooked up, using the blue 90-degree silicone couplers at the FMIC. The driver's side was pretty easy, I just had to cut a little off the one 135-degree pipe that I connected to the stock "cold" pipe. The passenger side was a little more complicated, but wasn't too bad. I had to cut a few inches off the 90-degree pipe I had coming off the turbo, in order to straighen out the angle down towards the blue coupler. This pipe wasn't quite long enough to make the connection, so I had to cut a piece of straight pipe about 100mm long, and that did the job:






After I got all the pipes connected and clamps snugged down, I was anxious to start the car and see if there were any leaks. I ran my hand around every coupling, and didn't feel any leaks, so I was ready to do the happy dance. However, while the car was idling, I noticed the rpms would drop, then go back up, then drop, etc. So I looked around in the engine compartment, and whaddayaknow, one of the spark plug cables was arcing against one of the metal clamps (I asked this question earlier, lol!). So being the novice mechanic that I am, and knowing absolutely nothing about how automotive electronics work, I figured a piece of rubber hose, split open and wedged between the metal clamp and sparkplug cable would provide enough insulation, boy was I wrong! I backed the car out of the driveway, and started driving around the neighborhood, and the car felt like it wasn't running on all cylinders. I headed back home, and started smelling something burning. I parked the car in the garage, turned it off, and popped the hood. I think what I was smelling was the rubber "insulation" burning. I was stumped, thinking what could I use to insulate the sparkplug cable against the metal clamp, and settled on a piece of hard plastic and corrugated cardboard:



I started the car up again, and this time the idle was steady. Took the car for a short road test, and it ran fine. Boosted fine, drove like normal, the only thing different was there is a slight "whistle" sound I'm hearing now, which I think is coming from the turbo, so I'm not concerned about that.

So back to my first comment, in that I came SOOOOOO close to finishing this project. Now my problem apparently is getting the bumper back on. There are four metal "pads" that the bumper rests against. There are the two at the ends, with the long allen head bolt that actually holds the bumper on. Then there are the two pads towards the middle, and this is where I have my problem. I didn't cut those pads, just the metal underneath, so the ends of the FMIC would fit. When I test fitted the bumper, the long bolts that are on the back of the bumper are hitting the FMIC. So I'm thinking I'll just cut the four bolts off, problem solved. Not so quick...

Seems that the FMIC might be sticking out far enough that even with those 4 bolts cut off, I might not be able to secure the ends of the bumper with those long bolts. I bought a new Ryobi reciprocating saw, so I might have to use it to modify the back of the bumper, in order to clear the FMIC, so I can bolt the bumper back on. I'm so close, I'll try to resist the urge to do something dumb, in order to get it finished. I'm not planning on putting the driving lights back on, or the headlight wiper motors. Once I get the bumper back on, I'll put the black plastic thing that goes underneath the bumper, and trim it accordingly.

Stay tuned, it's ALMOST done...
__________________
1991 Saab 900 turbo convertible, AT, black top, red body, gray interior (RIP 09/12/2012)
Southeast VA, USA
http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/y...CKY_2BCT2s.jpg
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