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  #1  
Old 18th January 2012
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Default Head Bolts: Just re-torque or replace?

The tightening instructions (30 ft/lb, 44 ft/lb, then 90) leads me to believe that these are stretch bolts and should be replaced, however the Saab service bulletins just say to re-torque.

Thoughts?
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Old 18th January 2012
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Saab specified "re-torque" because they had thousands of cars to do and it took far less time/money to re-torque and replace only those that would not hold properly.

I did it once without replacement and several of the bolts felt very uncomfortable, even just determining that they were stretching ad infinitum. The second time I did a car I ordered a new set of bolts. It's only $50 and it feels much better.
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Old 18th January 2012
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What's the proper way to do it?

30/44/90 on the first bolt then go to the second one, etc.

or

30 on the first bolt, then change the second one, etc.
44 on the second pass
90 on the final pass?
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Old 18th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsavard View Post
30 on the first bolt, then change the second one, etc.
44 on the second pass
90 on the final pass?
These are the service bulletin instructions.
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Old 19th January 2012
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I'd say a retorque once is fine, I would buy new ones if they'd been retorqued in the past.
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Old 19th January 2012
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Several '99's that I've seen had a retorque in their service history. Mine did and I bought new bolts. The horror stories of people snapping them in the head was sufficient deterrent for the cheapo solution of retorquing.
-cm
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  #7  
Old 19th January 2012
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^^^
What CM said. Replace them, for 50 bucks it's a no brainer. That's a lot cheaper than paying someone to remove the broken piece out of the head after you spend 6 hours cursing everything in sight and not getting anywhere.
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Old 19th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsavard View Post
What's the proper way to do it?

30/44/90 on the first bolt then go to the second one, etc.

or

30 on the first bolt, then change the second one, etc.
44 on the second pass
90 on the final pass?

One bolt at a time. See the TSB at the genuinesaab.com site.
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Old 19th January 2012
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First question, why do you think you need to do this?
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Old 19th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lms View Post
First question, why do you think you need to do this?
Well, the Saab TSB, for one. Why would they bother to issue it if there wasn't a problem? The TSB pretty much states that either they weren't tight enough when they left the factory or they stretched more than anyone thought they would and they need to be re-torqued.
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  #11  
Old 19th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSaabit View Post
One bolt at a time. See TSB at the genuinesaab.com site.
This is incorrect. That's not the TSB. The actual TSB specifically states:

3 Back off bolt number 1 and tighten it again. Repeat this in the order shown. Tightening torque 40 Nm (30 lbf ft).
4 Tighten bolt number 1 to a torque of 60 Nm (44 lbf ft). Tighten the other bolts to the same torque in the order shown, see illustration.
5 Tighten bolt number 1 an additional 90 (1/4 turn). Tighten the other bolts similarly in the order shown, see illustration.


Here is a link to the actual TSB on Townsend's site.


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Old 19th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeyjoe View Post
This is incorrect. That's not the TSB. The actual TSB specifically states:

3 Back off bolt number 1 and tighten it again. Repeat this in the order shown. Tightening torque 40 Nm (30 lbf ft).
4 Tighten bolt number 1 to a torque of 60 Nm (44 lbf ft). Tighten the other bolts to the same torque in the order shown, see illustration.
5 Tighten bolt number 1 an additional 90 (1/4 turn). Tighten the other bolts similarly in the order shown, see illustration.


Here is a link to the actual TSB on Townsend's site.


But you have a 2000, correct?
I was wrong, I thought it was up to 99 years.

Last edited by lms; 19th January 2012 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 19th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeyjoe View Post
This is incorrect. That's not the TSB. The actual TSB specifically states:

3 Back off bolt number 1 and tighten it again. Repeat this in the order shown. Tightening torque 40 Nm (30 lbf ft).
4 Tighten bolt number 1 to a torque of 60 Nm (44 lbf ft). Tighten the other bolts to the same torque in the order shown, see illustration.
5 Tighten bolt number 1 an additional 90 (1/4 turn). Tighten the other bolts similarly in the order shown, see illustration.


Here is a link to the actual TSB on Townsend's site.


There was another TSB that superceeded the original TSB. If you want to argue that it doesn't cover pre-99 2.0 liter motors, or that the '96 and previous motors covered by the TSB you posted, you can, but I'd bank on it being intended to cover ALL 2.0 motors:

http://www.genuinesaab.com/psi/files/headretorque.htm

Last edited by BobSaabit; 19th January 2012 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 19th January 2012
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Well, I just spent a lot of time searching for that newer TSB and couldn't find one. Anyone have a link? The Talifero link (genuinesaab.com) is the only place I've seen that procedure listed like that. Thesaabsite quotes the TSB as I did above. I did discover that none of the head bolt TSBs even apply to a 2000 9-3. Much ado about nothing, perhaps?

I think there are enough posts about headgasket failure to justify doing it just for peace of mind.
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Old 19th January 2012
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There is this for the 9-5, 205 & 235 motors '98 to '01 : http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/9-5/index.html?bID=98292 which you can read fairly well, and this for the 9-3 http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/members/g...7&memberID=112 which is a little harder to read because the guy who runs saabnet is a dickhead.
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Old 19th January 2012
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Thanks, but both of those links echo the procedure listed above in the actual TSB (not the genuinesaab link). Oh,well.
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Old 19th January 2012
BobSaabit BobSaabit is offline
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Well, does address the point of whether the MY 2000 is covered.

As to the tightening sequence, I don't think GS made up that procedure, and I think I saw it in a TSB before. But, you could email Nick and ask to be sure. The TSB you cited is dated 1996 - it's definitely dated.

Either way, the GS listed procedure seems like a better choice to me. The GS TSB has the head under uneven torque for a minimum period of time.
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Old 19th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSaabit View Post
Either way, the GS listed procedure seems like a better choice to me. The GS TSB has the head under uneven torque for a minimum period of time.
Assuming that all the torque values are about right to begin with. If not, the other way makes more sense (get them all to 30, then finish the process).
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Old 19th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeyjoe View Post
Assuming that all the torque values are about right to begin with. If not, the other way makes more sense (get them all to 30, then finish the process).
That's the best assumption... if they are uneven then it's still probbaly the best approach since we don't know the conditions.

If you like, you can start by checking bolts 10, 9, and 6 for reasonable torque, then run through the procedure of swapping bolts.
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Old 19th January 2012
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I have no idea where that info came from. WIS and ELRING both have a torque diagram with the torque down beginning in the middle of the head and all bolts progressively getting more and more tightened down. Do you tighten just one lug nut on your wheel to peak torque at a time? NO! Everything that I've ever worked on had a progressive torque increment in a pattern that evenly distributed pressure. Maybe I misunderstood, but this is what I meant:
http://www.swedishwrench.com/head.htm
-cm
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