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  #1  
Old 20th October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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Default 2003 2.3 Vector

Hi all
Bit of a circumspect question in a way but here goes.
I have bought blind a 2003 Vector (manual Estate) as a spares/repair job.
It is simply described as being noisy with suspected big end failure.

I gather that the sludge issue was all but sorted by 2003 so, is that likely to be the cause of big end failure.
Is there any other common failure of that era 9-5s that could be mistaken for big ends ?

I am trying to be forearmed and gather as many ideas before the car is delivered which will probably be the weekend.

Sump off and a clean will be the 1st thing whatever happens, unless of course it is immediately apparent the noise is terminal :-)
Any ideas welcome
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  #2  
Old 20th October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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Bit of an update.

I have now seen the car (it will be delivered to me in the morning)

It does indeed sound like big ends, a rumble (not the deep mains rumble) when the throttle is used and that unmistakable dadadadada when the throttle is released as everything catches up with everything else :-)
However, with the bonnet up it does tend to sound as though it may be higher up on the left (as viewed from in front of the car).
Chains perhaps ?

No smoke
No oil light on
Just the noise.
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  #3  
Old 20th October 2011
Manick Manick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoturbos View Post
Bit of an update.

I have now seen the car (it will be delivered to me in the morning)

It does indeed sound like big ends, a rumble (not the deep mains rumble) when the throttle is used and that unmistakable dadadadada when the throttle is released as everything catches up with everything else :-)
However, with the bonnet up it does tend to sound as though it may be higher up on the left (as viewed from in front of the car).
Chains perhaps ?

No smoke
No oil light on
Just the noise.

You cannot count on the oil light. Check the oil and replace it! Bad oil or just to little oil will generate the sound you are describing.
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  #4  
Old 20th October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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Manick

No problem there. Oil out and sump off will be the first task. It would be even without the noise!
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  #5  
Old 20th October 2011
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TyrannicalTy95 TyrannicalTy95 is offline
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The sludge issue wasn't "corrected" until 2004 when 9-5's came from the factory with PCV#6. Did you check which version is on your '03? Regardless, any 9-5 can sludge up with wrong oil type or inadequate change intervals.

You know the first step: check the sump.

If you're wondering about chain noise, the valve cover is extremely easy to remove and take a look at the chain. After that, you can check the tensioner.
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  #6  
Old 20th October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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I have all the paperwork for the car. It last had an oil change just under 10k ago so does need one. It is fully stamped up to 87k in the book with main dealer stamps.
6mths ago : New Di Pack
14mths ago: New Turbo, new discs/pads all round


I confess that I didn't check for the PCV update, I was already committed to the purchase so was really only there to pay up (inc the del cost) and have a listen to the noise.
It is a March 2003 Vector with 96k on the clock. Main dealer history with a few bills to back it up.
3 owners to date, a couple of months MOT. £450 delivered to my door.

I smell a bargain methinks :-)
Only downside (for me ) is that it is a manual, both my wife and I prefer the auto model of any car. Age breeds laziness, or is it the bad back and failing knees :-)
I will know more in the next few days when the spanners and torch come out to play!
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  #7  
Old 21st October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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New update.

Car is delivered and I have had a chance to dig a little deeper.
Fires up immediately but as the engine warms the noise is quite clearly from the top somewhere. Definately top left area. Sounds like a thud from no 1 piston area.
Problem inside the head perhaps or the piston thudding against the head.
Mmmmmmm
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  #8  
Old 21st October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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I have had the cam cover off and it is as clean as a whistle in there. No lifter wear or evidence of chain wear. My suspicions are that at least one bigend is shot to bits and allowing the piston a little too much 'slop' room and perhaps hitting the head. I will know more when the sump is off.

One thing does intrigue me (not for the 1st time either!)

This car is a 2003 with 97k, fully stamped up with main dealers stamps but................it still has the original PCV!
Surely one main dealer should have done this at some stage as a matter of course during any one of the services. Was it not a recall issue ?????
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  #9  
Old 22nd October 2011
Jssaab Jssaab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoturbos View Post
I have had the cam cover off and it is as clean as a whistle in there. No lifter wear or evidence of chain wear. My suspicions are that at least one bigend is shot to bits and allowing the piston a little too much 'slop' room and perhaps hitting the head. I will know more when the sump is off.

One thing does intrigue me (not for the 1st time either!)

This car is a 2003 with 97k, fully stamped up with main dealers stamps but................it still has the original PCV!
Surely one main dealer should have done this at some stage as a matter of course during any one of the services. Was it not a recall issue ?????
My 03 has 135K on it and I jsut did the update I dropped teh sump no sludge, flusched the engine 2 x over the first 30K miles I had it ( bought at 70K used full syn 5K changes ...

WIth good care the PCV will funciton well but as it ages you will get some seepage, the hoses will start to get mucshy and you will start getting blowby leaks. Most dealers will only change when they start going bad
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  #10  
Old 22nd October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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Ok, update and confession time.

1st
Dropped the sump and it was full of filings. Dropped the bigend shells and one had run.
Dropped the mains and they all had, totally shot.

So, I reshelled mains and bigends, the crank and pistons look pretty good..

All buttoned up and turn her on, she spins (tightly) but no hint of firing, nothing at all. You would think (speed aside) that there were no plugs in here. She simply makes that 'whizzing' noise that happens with no plugs.

Rapid;ly getting dark here now so no real time to look further.
But.......sump drop is something I have done a few times. What the hell could I have disconnected that would cause this ?
I cannot think of anything.
Now the confession.
After all that I spotted the oil bypass pipe that belongs inside the sump sitting smiling at me. It swaddles the bottom end across the crank, side to side.
So, I have to pop out the sump again tomorrow anyway.

GGGGrrrrr

Not that the mnissing pipe should stop her starting.................should it ???

Last edited by twoturbos; 22nd October 2011 at 01:48 PM.
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  #11  
Old 22nd October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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Ok
Been giving this some thouyght. The only 2 electrical connectors touched were the 2 lambda sensors. They would not cause this.

But..........the aperture disc for the CPS is of course tight up against the main bearing and restricts access to the bearing housing. I wonder if I have done something there and the CPS is not reading anything.

Make sense ?
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  #12  
Old 23rd October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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Mmm
Well, I am baffled :-(
I dropped the sump again in order to fit the link pipe for the lubrication. I also dropped all the shell cases to check all appeared well still. No clear problems there. Buttoned them back up to the right torque. The engine is very tight to turn by hand, even with the plugs out.
The starter whizzes it round however. This I expected with minimal oil around the shells (each was fitted with a puddle of oil around the shell.

But..........put the plugs in and the engine struggles to turn and shows zero sign of firing.
I cannot fathom any reason why not.
No ignition (DI aside) related items have been touched or disconnected.
The only electrical connecters touched were the 2 lambdas.
Why no fire or any indication the engine wants to ?
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  #13  
Old 23rd October 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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She runs :-)

Not really sure what that was all about but I put the battery on for a good strong chargeand tried again.
It stuttered and tried, eventually firing up and running for a few seconds. Blowing heavily out of the filler tube.
So, I blew through the breathers, replaced the old one way valve (blowing both ways) and tried again.

Much much better, now idled for a few minutes getting quieter and quieter as the oil surged its way round the engine. Took her for a short run (only about a mile) and the car pulled strongly with any noise althouigh I didn't take her above 2500rpm.

So, hopefully that will be that and the car will be good for a few 0000 miles without needing a full rebuild.
My concern was that the car had been driven for sometime with bearings spinning doing untold damage elsewhere (crankshaft, pistons, rings etc).
It appears that the damage wasn't terminal and reshelling will at least give it a new lease of life even if it falls short of the full rebuild it really needed to be sure of a long engine life.

Not bad for a total outlay of under £600.

Now to run it for a while and see if the car actually warrants any real investment :-)
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  #14  
Old 4th November 2011
twoturbos twoturbos is offline
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Well, a week on and this car has just surprised me again.
It already had a month or so to run on its MOT but I figured it may as well go in now for its test. Whilst I couldn't find anything of note i wanted a week or two as a window to do anything it needed.

No bother, it passed with flying colours.

So, a 2003 2.3t Vector bought blind as a 'scrapper' with banging bearings for £400 is now.
Sorted via a reshell (nice and quiet)
A few minor repairs such as tailgate latch, high level brake lamp, crankshaft seal (to do tomorrow), SID repair (used an iron!) and a few other no cost repairs and I am good to go for 12mths with a total outlay of under £700

Black, manual,under 97k, fully stamped service book, everything works and body is excellent. Interior almost unmarked.

One happy bunny here.
Now..............what to do with it, afterall, I only drive autos since major spinal surgery
heheheh
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