Rough idle when engine is cold - SaabCentral Forums
*
Home Saab Pictures Saab Classifieds Saab Dealer Listings Saab Forum Saab Forum


Go Back   SaabCentral Forums > Saab NG900, 1994-1998 and OG9-3, 1999-2002 & '03 Convertible (NG=new gen/OG=old gen) > NG900 & OG9-3 Workshop

NG900 & OG9-3 Workshop NG900 (1994 to 1998) & OG9-3 (1999-2002) & '03 Convertible Technical Forum

SaabCentral.com is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 1st October 2011
jmatt912 jmatt912 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011                                                
Location: Rochester, NY
My Saabs: 2001 93 se
Posts: 9
Default Rough idle when engine is cold

I have a 2001 93 se that when it first starts, it runs good for maybe 5-10 sec. then it runs rough at idle. without me touching the gas pedal, it will lower rpm the surge up in rpm ( 975-1300 ish) it will do this for awhile, and might even stall. once the car is warmed up it will idle and run nice. If I try to put the car in gear cold it stalls or I have to manage to manage the gas pedal and still might stall. Anyone have any thoughts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 2nd October 2011
srmoose srmoose is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2008                                                
Location: SW Florida
My Saabs: 01 9-5 2.3l 00 9-5 3.0, 88 900 2dr 2l
Posts: 863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmatt912 View Post
I have a 2001 93 se that when it first starts, it runs good for maybe 5-10 sec. then it runs rough at idle. without me touching the gas pedal, it will lower rpm the surge up in rpm ( 975-1300 ish) it will do this for awhile, and might even stall. once the car is warmed up it will idle and run nice. If I try to put the car in gear cold it stalls or I have to manage to manage the gas pedal and still might stall. Anyone have any thoughts?
it sounds like it might be one of the sensors, when you start it the control module does not pick the signal up, after 5-10 seconds it gets some bad info from something and adjusts the idle.
Do you have a check engine light on?
and how cold? (got cold here last night, almost went into the upper 60s F)
__________________
'01 9-5 Wagon 2.3. '00 9-5 Wagon 3.0, 1999 9-3 Conv.
1990 900 3 dr RIP, 1985 900 2 dr coupe RIP
1986 900 4 dr RIP 1976 99 2 dr RIP, 1977 99 5 dr RIP
1973 Sonett Gone but not forgotten

Last edited by srmoose; 2nd October 2011 at 12:22 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 2nd October 2011
BobSaabit BobSaabit is online now
Saab on the Brain!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009                                                
Location: Matchahusetts
My Saabs: '97 NG900 'vert; '03 OG 9 'vert
Posts: 9,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srmoose View Post
(got cold here last night, almost went into the upper 60s F)
I think you need a smily there for that statement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 2nd October 2011
srmoose srmoose is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2008                                                
Location: SW Florida
My Saabs: 01 9-5 2.3l 00 9-5 3.0, 88 900 2dr 2l
Posts: 863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSaabit View Post
I think you need a smily there for that statement.
there I put one in, but seriously I had to shut off the AC!
__________________
'01 9-5 Wagon 2.3. '00 9-5 Wagon 3.0, 1999 9-3 Conv.
1990 900 3 dr RIP, 1985 900 2 dr coupe RIP
1986 900 4 dr RIP 1976 99 2 dr RIP, 1977 99 5 dr RIP
1973 Sonett Gone but not forgotten
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 2nd October 2011
BobSaabit BobSaabit is online now
Saab on the Brain!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009                                                
Location: Matchahusetts
My Saabs: '97 NG900 'vert; '03 OG 9 'vert
Posts: 9,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srmoose View Post
there I put one in, but seriously I had to shut off the AC!

Wow, I feel for you man.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 6th October 2011
jmatt912 jmatt912 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011                                                
Location: Rochester, NY
My Saabs: 2001 93 se
Posts: 9
Default

Thanks srmoose, sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I was out of town. No check engine light. I have a cheap scan tool. It shows the The air temp at 61 when cold and a couple degrees warmer when warm, and the coolant 61 when cold, and went up to about 151 when I turned the car off. the outside temp was around 61. is their any other sensors I should look at. Thanks again,
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 10th October 2011
ASL ASL is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: May 2010                                                
Location: Albuquerque, NM
My Saabs: '01 Viggen
Posts: 35
Default

I'd like to bring this back to the top. My 2001 9-3 Viggen started doing this as well; although I have a check engine light on, as well as the inability to control TCS, which defaulted to off.
There is a small electronic box on the back of the engine around the intake area that clicks for a while then stops when the car first starts. I haven't read the code yet, but plan on it shortly. Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 10th October 2011
BobSaabit BobSaabit is online now
Saab on the Brain!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009                                                
Location: Matchahusetts
My Saabs: '97 NG900 'vert; '03 OG 9 'vert
Posts: 9,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
I'd like to bring this back to the top. My 2001 9-3 Viggen started doing this as well; although I have a check engine light on, as well as the inability to control TCS, which defaulted to off.
There is a small electronic box on the back of the engine around the intake area that clicks for a while then stops when the car first starts. I haven't read the code yet, but plan on it shortly. Any thoughts?

My thought is: READ THE CODE.

Until then you're shooting in the dark.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 12th October 2011
ASL ASL is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: May 2010                                                
Location: Albuquerque, NM
My Saabs: '01 Viggen
Posts: 35
Default

Alright, it's throwing P1230, which is a fuel air metering issue. This is what I suspected, and doesn't particularly help me at the moment. Anyone with more Saab experience know what to do here?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 12th October 2011
BobSaabit BobSaabit is online now
Saab on the Brain!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009                                                
Location: Matchahusetts
My Saabs: '97 NG900 'vert; '03 OG 9 'vert
Posts: 9,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
Alright, it's throwing P1230, which is a fuel air metering issue. This is what I suspected, and doesn't particularly help me at the moment. Anyone with more Saab experience know what to do here?
That code appears to be a throttle body issue, a known failure point on these cars. It can also be caused by a wiring issue with a TB sensor.

Are you in limp home mode by any chance? That would cause issues. You may need a TB.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 28th October 2011
ASL ASL is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: May 2010                                                
Location: Albuquerque, NM
My Saabs: '01 Viggen
Posts: 35
Default

Well I put on a new TB and the issue seemed to go away for a bit. However, it has come back. Could this be turning into an MAF as well? DIC, even? I'm at a loss.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 28th October 2011
BobSaabit BobSaabit is online now
Saab on the Brain!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009                                                
Location: Matchahusetts
My Saabs: '97 NG900 'vert; '03 OG 9 'vert
Posts: 9,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL View Post
Well I put on a new TB and the issue seemed to go away for a bit. However, it has come back. Could this be turning into an MAF as well? DIC, even? I'm at a loss.

Thanks.
Is that a new TB or a rebuilt? There is a possibility of a defect. However, I'd be more likely to think that you reset it and it just took some time to happen again (or happen enough that the ECU set the CEL).

If it was your DIC, I would think you'd have misfire or camshaft position codes, not the code you're getting.

Someone else will have to address the MAF as it's not really my area of expertise (yet... always "yet" with a Saab :-) . We'll need someone else to chime in on that and other possibilities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 28th October 2011
bluebird bluebird is offline
SaabNut!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010                                                
Location: Connecticut
My Saabs: 2002 SE Vert
Posts: 394
Default

I'm in on this problem also, I have another thread on it.
However, I got to say now that it is actually cold and not chilly the problem seems to have vanished.
Ghost in the machine.
I got a P0300 code, cleared it and never came back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 28th October 2011
lms's Avatar
lms lms is online now
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005                                                
Location: United States
Posts: 3,407
Default

Unplug the maf, drive it and that will tell you if it's the maf or not, but I doubt it is. When you replaced the TB, did you remove the code using a code reader and did you reset limp mode? If you did not do this correctly it will go back into limp mode.
If your car does not have the ECU firmware load that fixes false alarms about the TB, you need to get it updated. In some cases, new firmware, clear codes and reset the TB solenoid is all that is required. The ECU will trip the TB solenoid.
You also need to check the wiring and connectors near the TB. Open up the connector and look for signs of contamination.
I read this on another site where a few people have gotten this code, replaced the TB and a week later the code is back. A Saab tech posted about the above firmware upgrade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 28th October 2011
ASL ASL is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: May 2010                                                
Location: Albuquerque, NM
My Saabs: '01 Viggen
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lms View Post
Unplug the maf, drive it and that will tell you if it's the maf or not, but I doubt it is. When you replaced the TB, did you remove the code using a code reader and did you reset limp mode? If you did not do this correctly it will go back into limp mode.
If your car does not have the ECU firmware load that fixes false alarms about the TB, you need to get it updated. In some cases, new firmware, clear codes and reset the TB solenoid is all that is required. The ECU will trip the TB solenoid.
You also need to check the wiring and connectors near the TB. Open up the connector and look for signs of contamination.
I read this on another site where a few people have gotten this code, replaced the TB and a week later the code is back. A Saab tech posted about the above firmware upgrade.
Thanks, lms, I'll look into that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #16  
Old 28th October 2011
BobSaabit BobSaabit is online now
Saab on the Brain!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009                                                
Location: Matchahusetts
My Saabs: '97 NG900 'vert; '03 OG 9 'vert
Posts: 9,888
Default

The firmware upgrade can't hurt, but it might not help.

What was happening is that as TB's got a little worn, they started to throw codes. Saab claims that the parameters for the TB were set too tight, so they issued that firmware upgrade to "fix" them. There's some debate whether they really thought the new parameters were correct for the engine, or whether they just wanted to avoid the cost of replacing thousands of TB's.

Some cars will stop throwing codes after the upgrade because the limits are looser. Some will still throw code because the TB is past the new limits. A Saab (dealer) tech I talked to said that while the upgrade sometimes fixes them without replacing the TB, every car he saw with the problem eventually came back for the TB replacement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #17  
Old 28th October 2011
lms's Avatar
lms lms is online now
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005                                                
Location: United States
Posts: 3,407
Default

^^^ It's worth a shot, and I have read that it has fixed a few cars where people have replaced the TB due to that code, only for that code to rear it's ugly head once again.
Some people also think that if they disconnect the battery for a period time that this will clear all codes. Yes it will clear most, but it will not clear the fault code in regards to cars going into limp mode.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18  
Old 30th December 2011
ASL ASL is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: May 2010                                                
Location: Albuquerque, NM
My Saabs: '01 Viggen
Posts: 35
Default

Alright, sorry to bring this back up, but I'm getting the same general codes again. P1251, P1010, P0507 (It alternates between these, pretty consistent with P1251, though). I'm pretty confused, I'll clear the codes and could drive for days or hours and the lights pop back on.
The most interesting thing I've noticed is that the throttle pedal feels a bit 'sticky' while driving, yet doesn't at all once the lights come on. Insight would be great, I'm super sick of looking at that orange glow on the dash.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19  
Old 30th December 2011
Pontius DIO Pontius DIO is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2011                                                
Location: .
My Saabs: .
Posts: 3,174
Default

I did some digging, here's some copy and paste stuff:

P1251 is Throttlebody unable to close full. Limphome mode possible. Clean TB.

P1010 can be caused by a blocked air filter or air leaks. I have seen the long black pipe that goes from round the back of the black cover to the turbo crack and let in air.

This P0507 code is one that's sometimes triggered on vehicles that have electronic throttle control. That is, they don't have a regular throttle cable from the accelerator pedal to the engine. They rely on sensors and electronics to control the throttle. In this case, the P0507 DTC (diagnostic trouble code) is triggered when the PCM (powertrain control module) detects an engine idle speed that is greater than the desired (pre-programmed) RPM. In the case of GM vehicles (and possibly others) if the idle speed is over 200 rpm higher than expected, this code will be set.

------------------------
1st thing I'd do is check that the TB butterfly plate isn't damaged or sticking. If it's sticking, a good carb cleaner should help. I'd remove the TB, spray liberally. It's possible that it was sticking, then the ECM tried adjusting it while stuck, then it surged and threw a high idle and popped a code. Check the air filter. If the filter is new, check for obstructions in the intake somewhere. Maybe a mouse made a nest where it shouldn't of. I've seen birds get into tailpipes and nest and the nesting actually wouldn't blow out.

Last edited by Pontius DIO; 30th December 2011 at 08:20 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SaabCentral Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rough idle when cold FortEric NG900 & OG9-3 Workshop 0 7th September 2010 10:19 PM
Rough Engine Idle on Cold Starts BF2009 9-3 Sedan, Cabrio ('04+)/Combi & 9-3X Workshop 3 26th September 2009 02:12 PM
rough idle cold saabfan9 9000 Workshop 2 16th November 2007 10:16 PM
rough idle cold saabfan9 9000 Workshop 8 27th October 2007 09:52 PM
VERY rough idle when cold, smooth when engine warm...? Blackstealth 9000 Workshop 4 19th December 2004 01:38 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:17 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

top of page | sitemap | email us



copyright © 2003 - 2011 saabcentral.com, All rights reserved http://www.whiter.co.uk - valid xhtml - valid css
SaabCentral is an independently run website and is not affiliated in any way to Saab Automobile AB.


Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.