Hide the women and children! It's the TTAC 9-5 review!

[PeriSoft]

That's right, ladies and gentlemen - The Truth About Cars, a blog which couldn't muster enthusiasm for Saab if its executives mediated a lasting Middle East peace, has reviewed the 2010 9-5. And.... it's remarkably positive.

The previous 9-5 was dismissed as a "trifling irrelevance", if I recall correctly, and the article closed by saying that Saab itself should be shut down as soon as possible. No way but up from there, but amazingly, it seems that the worst TTAC can do to the new 9-5 is complain about the IP plastic (a foregone conclusion) and compare it to a Lexus and a Mercedes. Now, those comparisons were criticisms - they think it's too smooth and quiet - and a good chunk of the article is spent pontificating about how it's not Saaby enough to... uh... attract Saab's niche market, and then about how Saab's niche market isn't enough? Uh... Yeah, anyway. The rest, I'll let you read:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rev...saab-9-5-aero/

Their photos make the IP look truly awful - not something I remember from seeing it in person. I posted my megaphoto link down there; we'll see if anyone replies.

[boon94]

"even most people who might have bought a new 9-5 now won’t."

Well this is ironic, I dont think the review is absolutely terrible, however this sentence just doesnt make any sense in context of what he has said about the vehicle...

People buy bland handling, and that's a fact... but people also like unique styling, that's another fact.. (and that's the only reason why anyone buys a damn HHR or PT Cruiser)..

Saab is appealing to as many people as possible. There is nothing about this car that is going to cause a deal breaker. No harsh suspension, no over-under steer tendencies, no loud noises... no surprises. (sans the black plastic)

For a company that is hanging by a thread, this vehicle fits the formula of appealing to as many people as possible... Which is why I completely disagree with the authors closing statement of "even most people who might have bought a new 9-5 now won’t."

[PeriSoft]

Yeah, it's a bizarre attitude. "Saab needs to sell to Lexus buyers because there aren't enough Saab aficionados. Saab aficionados won't buy this car because it's like a Lexus. Therefore, this car won't sell."

Uhhh....

That, and as I pointed out in the thread, five reviews of Audis failed to mention Volkswagen ONCE, but Karesh twists the GM knife FIVE TIMES in one review of a Saab - which is far less like its platform mates than the A4.

Then you've got people who on one hand complained about the OG 9-5's harshness and lack of refinement - and now rip on the new 9-5 for its "lack of urgency". You'd think Saab slept with all their sisters, or something.

At any rate, this is actually a pretty positive review. Since Farago's disappeared from TTAC they hate far fewer cars. Now they just need to stop looking for every excuse to savage GM (you'd think that Obama was personally making management decisions). I'm no fan of US land yachts, and it's clear that Ford is eating GM's lunch, but jeez, guys, give it a rest...

[Wulf]

TTAC is a waste of time. Just a bunch of kids pretending they know anything about cars. It looks like they just went to a dealer (Glassman in Southfield, MI?) and took a 9-5 for a test drive.

[Rennsport1]

A fairly positive review, then they say no one will buy the car, strange. We'll see how true that is. But I don't think they should be predicting sales numbers, most journalists will quote company projections, but they don't go writing "no one will buy it". I think that is actually not very professional.

[J-Rod]

Not very professional at all. And they're already wrong. My dealer has already sold one. Plus my mom might be getting one in a year or two.

[PeriSoft]

Originally Posted by Wulf

TTAC is a waste of time. Just a bunch of kids pretending they know anything about cars. It looks like they just went to a dealer (Glassman in Southfield, MI?) and took a 9-5 for a test drive.

Nah, they're not that bad. They're certainly not kids - much closer to grumpy old men.

The reviewers go to dealers so they don't get hand-picked, flawless examples meant for the press - which makes some sense.

TTAC has a heavy bias against Saab, and a conservative bent which I find annoying, but the commenters are generally well spoken, flame-free, and willing to listen to each other. Plus, they tend to pick really funny pictures to go with the article headlines...

[saab19]

from an english perspective, it's a poorly written article. lots of passive voice, excessive use of the word "idiosyncracies" (which, according to this browser, is spelled incorrectly), etc.

it strikes me as similar to the NY Times auto section, which is a waste of paper.

given that he seems to like the 9-5 but just can't bring himself to say it bc it's a saab and has GM parts, I'd say it's not the greatest article on the whole. the only bright side is that he paints it positively against MB and other competitors in some instances.

[saabhutter]

Does anyone know how the sales of the car in the US are going? I'm hearing a decent amount of spottings from you guys. It seems to be selling well in Europe.

[Rennsport1]

I don't know about sales numbers in the U.S. yet for the new 9-5. But I am sad to hear that Sewell will no longer be selling SAAB. Dallas/Fort Worth is a huge automotive market, and Sewell is probably our best respected luxury car dealer, or defintely one of them. The fact that Sewell sold SAAB for quite a few years recently is why I see quite a lot of late model SAABs jetting around D/FW, so it is very worrying that they no longer sell them

[kimvette]

Originally Posted by boon94

Saab is appealing to as many people as possible. There is nothing about this car that is going to cause a deal breaker. No harsh suspension, no over-under steer tendencies, no loud noises... no surprises. (sans the black plastic)

I would say that compared to BMW and Audi (and now Hyundai with the Genesis' getting the Equus' 429 hp engine) Saab's MSRP is a deal breaker, but the truth is buyers seeking that level of performance won't even walk in the door with the MSRP where it is, and buyers seeking the lower-performance options from those makes as status symbols won't walk in the door either.

Saab still very much has a perception of a status symbol with a lot of people. A lot of friends who have never really looked into Saabs perceive them as BMW-like in quality and performance, and think they are expensive. That was the marketing at work, Saab's past innovations, and the ultra-high (for what they are) MSRP.

Don't get me wrong - they are very, very good cars, but with the interior coating (that cheap rubberized paint - there are very good rubberized industrial coatings that would last that are only very slightly more expensive than the flaking stuff GM insisted on) decision being made by GM bean counters who wanted to save about $2.00 per car, the crappy GM Onstar system, mediocre audio system, and of course, the inferior power levels the otherwise exellent powertrains deliver, they don't hold a candle to Saab's perceived competition - and former underdog Hyundai is out-doing the 9-5 with the Genesis and will have an even higher end car in the States soon when the Equus (another fantastic car) makes its debut here. Hyundai has grown and lost much of its historic stigma (Hyundai Excel anyone?) and now makes fantastic cars, and they are priced to stimulate growth of the Hyundai brand and the quality, fit and finish, and even performance are all in place.

Lastly, there are really, really bad Saab dealers. All too many of them were GM dealers and have the Chevrolet/Pontiac idea of customer service (and in fact GM's concept of customer service is why I am unlikely to ever buy another Corvette - their support of the ZR-1 was craptacular at best. If I am in the market for another high end sportscar, I will look at Porsche or Audi) and have no idea how to support luxury cars nor even how to treat customers. GM does not own up to manufacturing defects (see: peeling interiors in Saabs. See: delaminating ZR-1 windshields. See: defective pinswitches. See: defective BOSE amps. See: total unavailability of catalytic converters, power brake boosters, clutch master cylinders, ECM, BCM, ignition modules, secondary intake actuators, and so on). Their idea of luxury car customers is rednecks who get lucky who go out and buy Cadillacs, and accept sub-par customer service because that is what they are used to. I know there are exceptions and there are decent Cadillac dealers, but compared to European makes, they are few and far between. Most have the GM attitude. Basically, GM dealers are the Wal-Mart of car dealers.

There are definitely exceptions; see most Saab dealers in Massachusetts. They were Saab dealers before GM owned Saab, and have never adopted the GM mentality of being hostile to customers and passing the buck.

[boon94]

Originally Posted by kimvette

I would say that compared to BMW and Audi (and now Hyundai with the Genesis' getting the Equus' 429 hp engine) Saab's MSRP is a deal breaker, but the truth is buyers seeking that level of performance won't even walk in the door with the MSRP where it is, and buyers seeking the lower-performance options from those makes as status symbols won't walk in the door either.

Well its MSRP is several thousand less than audi and BMW, even bigger difference when you add option packages... sooo....

[fiveiron9688]

Yeah but have you ever seen an Equus?






This thing is just ugly.

[Rennsport1]

Originally Posted by fiveiron9688

Yeah but have you ever seen an Equus?






This thing is just ugly.

Yeah, well it's more about luxury value than style. To me that segment is fairly boring anyway, except for the 550i/750i or the CTS-V, but not sure that is in the same segment, but is in the same price range at about $65K.

[lexington01]

Originally Posted by fiveiron9688

Yeah but have you ever seen an Equus?

Looks Chinese....

[88mmm]

Originally Posted by boon94

Well its MSRP is several thousand less than audi and BMW, even bigger difference when you add option packages... sooo....

Comparing this car to a BMW or Audi is a joke. I've have taken one for a test drive, while nice it is a boring bloated boat of car. If they want to sell them they should be priced with their Buick cousins. This car is better compared to a Passat then the lowest 5 series or A6. The MSRP is ridiculous for what you get especially for the basic 2.0 four.

[PeriSoft]

Originally Posted by 88mmm

Comparing this car to a BMW or Audi is a joke. I've have taken one for a test drive, while nice it is a boring bloated boat of car. If they want to sell them they should be priced with their Buick cousins. This car is better compared to a Passat then the lowest 5 series or A6. The MSRP is ridiculous for what you get especially for the basic 2.0 four.

Damn! You should get in touch with TTAC; they might need another reviewer!

Comparing it to a Buick is disingenuous to say the least; they've got no more in common with a Buick than any Audi has with a Volkswagen... but I don't hear you complaining that the A4 should be priced with the Passat.

When optioned equivalently, the Saab is significantly cheaper than its German counterparts.

And you won't be the subject of jokes like this:

Q) What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?
A) With a porcupine, the prick is on the outside.

[88mmm]

The 2011 Buick Lacrosse CSX is the pretty much the same car with a different engine. Fully optioned with the fancy HUD and gadgets and the H-Per suspension it comes out to $37,000. I love my Saab and I'm certainly no BMW snob but the new 9-5 is a joke at $49,000. Next up we get 9-3s with Mini engines, lol. I applaud the effort but Saab is dead with their pricing structure and these underpowered left over GMs. No one is cross shopping Saab with BMW and Audi except for Automags.

[boon94]

Originally Posted by 88mmm

The 2011 Buick Lacrosse CSX is the pretty much the same car with a different engine. Fully optioned with the fancy HUD and gadgets and the H-Per suspension it comes out to $37,000. I love my Saab and I'm certainly no BMW snob but the new 9-5 is a joke at $49,000. Next up we get 9-3s with Mini engines, lol. I applaud the effort but Saab is dead with their pricing structure and these underpowered left over GMs. No one is cross shopping Saab with BMW and Audi except for Automags.

A few differences:

• Saab's engine has 20 more HP at 1,100 less RPM
• Saab's engine has 35lbft more torque at 3000 less RPM
• Saab gets different seats with more adjustable features (such as adjustable thigh support)
• Saabs dynamic suspension and steering was tuned by saab on their own time, its not a direct translation from buick.
• Saab has a nicer gauge cluster with more screens
• Saab has 3 zone automatic climate control (rear seats get their own), buck only has 2 zone.
• I believe saab has a nicer premium audio system through HK
• I cant find this on buick, but saab displays free maintenance for the first 3 years.
• 70% of the parts in the 9-5 are unique to the 9-5

Compare these things to BMW and a 5 series will run you close to 8 grand more without AWD.
An a6 at LEAST 4 grand more.

... But I dont see you defending Buick against the BMW and A6..
Why not buy a loaded Subaru Legacy for even less money?
Your argument boils down to your narrow personal opinion. IDK how you can claim to know who is cross shopping who without substantial market research... (Which automags at least do a little of BTW)

[PeriSoft]

Does anyone know what kind of incentives people are getting on '10 9-5s? If they're offering everyone ten grand off that kind of changes things - though of course it's self-defeating given that people who don't realize they could get that discount won't bother going to the dealer in the first place...