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  #1  
Old 5th December 2003
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Default AWD and Farms

I can see the appeal of a AWD SAAB for farm tracks or 220bhp and over but the majority of 9-2 will never have need for AWD..
AWD that is not required would seem to be a less than optimal situation.
The vast majority of family, executive and sports cars are not AWD due to its weight and the power loss associated with the additional running gear.

Why does SAAB need AWD ? .....Apart from over rated safety argument.
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  #2  
Old 5th December 2003
nandanrp nandanrp is offline
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Here in snowy Michigan, AWD would be a great thing to have. Being able to just throw some Blizzaks on in November and then not worry about winter roads would be awesome! My question to you is, why wouldn't you want AWD? Putting power down through the front wheels definitely isn't the optimal solution...

I don't know the numbers myself but I think I remember reading about how much is lost in an AWD drivetrain (Subaru's specifically), and I don't think the losses were significant enough to make AWD a bad option.

Yes, a lot of cars these days are FWD/RWD only, but if you look at general trends, a lot more companies are going to AWD. BMW 3 series (xi models), Audi's Quattro, VW's 4motion, Jaguar X-type (though this AWD conversion was so that Jag didn't have a FWD car for sale :wink: ), Mercedes-Benz 4matics, Porsche 911s (Carrera 4, 4s, Turbo), Volvo R series, and the list goes on... Except for slightly lower fuel economy, there are a lot of cars there with 2WD counterparts that make similar numbers to the AWD models. So why wouldn't you want the traction advantage that goes with AWD!?

Are you telling me that you would limit Saab solely to the FWD platform?
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  #3  
Old 5th December 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nandanrp
Are you telling me that you would limit Saab solely to the FWD platform?
Yes.


RWD is best for powerslides as we often here from motoring journalists. (sad but true)
FWD has been adopted by the majority for its numerous design advantages including floorpan options. and dare I say its safety in bad weather.
For the 4 weeks in a year where the weather is that bad that you have to drive slightly slower I would argue that AWD is OTT for 99% of the cars on the road that have it.

AWD have been around for ages.... Take the Jenson interceptor ,,, a AWD supercar from the 1960's ...... Its a wonder that AWD traction has not found its way onto the Formular One grand prix tracks before now.

handy for deep snow though
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Old 5th December 2003
nandanrp nandanrp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry
FWD has been adopted by the majority for its numerous design advantages including floorpan options. and dare I say its safety in bad weather.
What about the handling advantage that RWD (and AWD) gives you? The 9-2X will sell more for its performance than its family hauling ability.

Oh, I'd also love to see a Porsche Turbo launch with FWD, that would be sweet (they use AWD, and the launch is supposed to be AWESOME - traction advantage).

I had FWD cars get stuck in the snow plenty of times - 5" worth...my friend's Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS on the other hand, with snow tires, climbed up a snow-covered grassy hill last winter without a problem.

You can try and convince me that FWD is the best solution for a performance automobile, but a few hundred automotive journalists would tend to disagree with you as well...
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  #5  
Old 5th December 2003
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yes, but thats a porcshe, were talking about a 220hp subaru (oh excuse me a SAAB)...the saab doesnt need AWD.. you wont be driving it thru 2 feet of snow.. its not that huge of an advantage
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Old 5th December 2003
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AWD is only an advantage when the car actually looses traction. For that split second its great! ......If your in a classic 911 that loss of traction is a near death experience, if your in a BMW M3 its 'FUN' but if your in a SAAB its nothing more than a twitch (due to FWD)

Hence the AWD is absolutly IDEAL for rally as Audi prooved.
Shame the fastest AWD rally car on earth the Lancia S4 had such a short life due to the limitations of AWD and its false sence of security, killing its driver.

.....AWD is great for 5% of driving.... Thats Farms, bad weather and rallying on bad roads in bad conditions (which is insane anyway)..... Prooove me wrong ! ?
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Old 5th December 2003
AWD4LIFE AWD4LIFE is offline
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What about TQ steer? The other notable trait of SAABs. That goes away with AWD.

5% of conditions? What about rain? Any lower traction enviroment with give AWD a distinct advantage. Uneven roads, roads with gravel across them, etc. The only time AWD wouldn't be an advantage is driving slowly in dry weather on nice pavement. That's closer to 5% of the time.

Don't forget AWD is banned from most major motorsports. It's not banned because it's worse either.
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Old 5th December 2003
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Would AWD help to speed up those slow F1 cars ?


Hang on a min.... this is getting silly.... I got to stop posting

Catch me when im sober, then I may excercxise more eloquence in retort.

AWD is great!..... Look at Audi, Landrover etc
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Old 5th December 2003
AWD4LIFE AWD4LIFE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry
Would AWD help to speed up those slow F1 cars ?
It might. I'm sure it's an issue of diminishing returns, weight and drivetrain loss vs extra traction and turning speed. I have no idea where the limit would be though.
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  #10  
Old 5th December 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD4LIFE
Quote:
Originally Posted by garry
Would AWD help to speed up those slow F1 cars ?
It might. I'm sure it's an issue of diminishing returns, weight and drivetrain loss vs extra traction and turning speed. I have no idea where the limit would be though.
Come on :wink: you know the same as we all do that AWD is a great idea for powerful (220 plus bhp) cars on normal windy and 'not good' roads....but you pay for it in petrol :wink:
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Old 6th December 2003
nandanrp nandanrp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry
Hang on a min.... this is getting silly.... I got to stop posting
What's silly is that you think FWD is better than AWD. Have you read an automotive magazine in the last ten years? Car and Driver for instance?
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  #12  
Old 6th December 2003
m750 m750 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry
Quote:
Originally Posted by nandanrp
Are you telling me that you would limit Saab solely to the FWD platform?
Yes.


RWD is best for powerslides as we often here from motoring journalists. (sad but true)
FWD has been adopted by the majority for its numerous design advantages including floorpan options. and dare I say its safety in bad weather.
For the 4 weeks in a year where the weather is that bad that you have to drive slightly slower I would argue that AWD is OTT for 99% of the cars on the road that have it.

AWD have been around for ages.... Take the Jenson interceptor ,,, a AWD supercar from the 1960's ...... Its a wonder that AWD traction has not found its way onto the Formular One grand prix tracks before now.

handy for deep snow though
You forgot what FWD is all about...
torque steer and understeer... I can hear garry now, these are a few of my favorite things.
I'm sorry but _any_ legitimate motor sport is rwd, with the exception of rally where you see primarily awd, maybe a few of the others. IMHO fwd is the worst platform for a performance car stand point.

Back on topic. Why would they need it? It's what consumers in markets with more than 1 seasons want, as an alterntive to .

This is the least inteligent statement I've read in a long time
Quote:
when the car actually looses traction
Um, Garry AWD is great at distobuting power so you don't loose traction. It's good at any point in time where you are pushing the limits of traction, turning, launching, accelerating out of a corner. But, as I've said in the past, you aren't willing to reason on issues regaurding the 9-2.
You are blinded by your vision of perfection, a saab.
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  #13  
Old 6th December 2003
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Maybe we should be building 6 wheelers.... more is better etc ;)

I simply find AWD overkill for normal use.... AWD is always at the expence of economy and space. A less than optimal issue for a 4 door family saloon.
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  #14  
Old 6th December 2003
tandino tandino is offline
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I can see this thread is spiraling downhill rapidly and therefore im locking it

Pete.
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